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[OFFICIAL] FX-8320/FX-8350 Vishera Owners Club - Page 298

post #2971 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:45pm
I'm on both sides here. I can do anything I want but Prime, no matter how much voltage I dump into the mix, ram timings I loosen or any frequency I lower/raise, all these things tweeked using any advice I find and applying all the knowledge I have gleaned from these and other excellent forums on the subject of overclocking seems to have any bearing at all on the outcome of Prime95. While the fact that I can find a place that will run Prime at all makes me think that its not a issue with prime. On the other hand nothing I do will allow for stability in Prime after a certain point and any other artificial stress test I can pass just fine.
I think for the moment or until I see some hard proof, I'm going to work on the assumption that I should have a stable overclock in Prime if I want to claim that I'm 100% 24/7 stable. After all its just to easy to claim that the program is at fault when I'm not 100% sure it is.
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post #2972 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red1776 View Post

For whatever reason, even high end board manufacturers seem to use a lesser thermal compound or pad on the NB heatsink. Amonst the first things I do is to remove the heatsink (s) and apply a good TIM. close to always I get a 7-15c reduction in NB temps.
Part of the reason that the old (in this case you mentioned the Gigabyte 790 GX) NB's were not as warm as the new boards can be because now the VRM heatsink and the NB HS are linked via a heatpipe whereas they were not previously. Especially since so much of the NB functionality has been moved on die.

Both Gigabyte and Asus have said that 85c is within the thermal operating limits of the NB. without a fan mine will run as high as 46c and that feels damn hot to the touch. but nowhere near being a problem.

I appreciate the background, Red, but that's not my old board. In fact, it's this one:



As you can see, it DOES have the heat pipe connecting the VRM heatsinks with the NB heatsink, and that's actually why I think it runs cooler. It' BECAUSE the heatpipe transfers heat away from the NB to the VRM heatsink that it runs cooler. That's the setup the UD5 uses, and your UD7 even connects the southbridge to the NB and VRM heatsinks for the same reason. The dumb idea was to keep the NB on the UD3 isolated. There's no way to conduct the heat building up anywhere else, except into the air, which is a very poor conductor of heat, as we all know. Maybe I should take the heat sinks/pipe off of my old UDP4 board and retrofit it onto the UD3...smile.gif
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post #2973 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:46pm
FYI, I've done a series of tests to see how much voltage is required to make my cpu stable at various multiplier settings. To eliminate other variables, I'm running at a low (2200) NB and HT clock, running my ram way under its rated speed and not messing with anything else. I've set CPU LLC at Ultra High on my CHVFZ because that gives me the overall most stable CPU voltage. I think the results are remarkably linear over the range I tested (as high as I could run and not get temps much in excess of 62).

Because there were so many runs (lots of failures), these are only 20 minute "stability" runs (prime95), not full tests. I've only done longer runs with the configurations I'm actually considering using.

19.5 1.23125
20 1.25625
20.5 1.27500
21 1.30625
21.5 1.33125
22 1.36875
23 1.42500
23.5 1.46875

The last one was the only one that seemed out of line. I couldn't get 24x stable with the cooling I had at the time.
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post #2974 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red1776 View Post

For whatever reason, even high end board manufacturers seem to use a lesser thermal compound or pad on the NB heatsink. Amonst the first things I do is to remove the heatsink (s) and apply a good TIM. close to always I get a 7-15c reduction in NB temps.
Part of the reason that the old (in this case you mentioned the Gigabyte 790 GX) NB's were not as warm as the new boards can be because now the VRM heatsink and the NB HS are linked via a heatpipe whereas they were not previously. Especially since so much of the NB functionality has been moved on die. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Both Gigabyte and Asus have said that 85c is within the thermal operating limits of the NB. without a fan mine will run as high as 46c and that feels damn hot to the touch. but nowhere near being a problem.

I appreciate the background, Red, but that's not my old board. In fact, it's this one:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

As you can see, it DOES have the heat pipe connecting the VRM heatsinks with the NB heatsink, and that's actually why I think it runs cooler. It' BECAUSE the heatpipe transfers heat away from the NB to the VRM heatsink that it runs cooler. That's the setup the UD5 uses, and your UD7 even connects the southbridge to the NB and VRM heatsinks for the same reason. The dumb idea was to keep the NB on the UD3 isolated. There's no way to conduct the heat building up anywhere else, except into the air, which is a very poor conductor of heat, as we all know. Maybe I should take the heat sinks/pipe off of my old UDP4 board and retrofit it onto the UD3...smile.gif

I'm not sure Giga's "Real Black" this round makes up for that color scheme...

And "retrofit" nothing, it would probably fit just fine.
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post #2975 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvaughn View Post

Then by definition their system ISN'T stable. Sorry, but that's a "duh" to me.
Maybe when I hear about all the cases where prime95 passes a system, but other stress test programs cause a failure, we'll have found a problem with prime95.

P95 has failed my stock fx-8350 a few times in under 30 seconds. It's intermittent, but it happened too often than not.

OCCT and IBT did not fail after 12 hours each.

I assure you, my stock clocks with a hyper 212+ is very much stable.
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post #2976 of 17049
11/10/12 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FX-8320 View Post

I am still thinking if it is possible to be Prime95 stable at a different speed on the same setup, then it should also be acceptable to be still Prime95 stable at your overclock, providing that it is truely stable.
Then if given the above is true, are many of these failing Prime95 overclocks actual not stable at all?

I tend to agree with you and wonder the same thing.
I've been doing a ton of watching in this thread about prime95 and all the troubles people are having. I too had problems when I first started playing. Now that I actually (finally) had time to setup my new system properly. Coming from a CHIV and a Thuban running 4222MHz with a 3211Mz NB Freq which after 6 days of 24/7 testing finally became 28 hr Prime95, 20 runs LinX on max, 20 runs IBT on max stable. Lets just say I get very anal about stability ok lol? I do everything slow and follow a given path without straying. After the first few hurdles I'm now making moves/increases a lot more easily and so far keeping P95 happy.

What I've learned so far with Prime95 and a 8350 is the FX is a different animal that's a given. But I do see a lot of the same patterns with the failures and than the fixes, but seems equally I'm forced to learn the new yet undiscovered moves to make the fixes. Over all Prime seems to be acting normal with the FX for me so far. Been having a lot of fun learning the new secretes with the CHFV-Z and 8350.
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post #2977 of 17049
11/10/12 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FX-8320 View Post

I think the main issue here is many die hard overclockers have been using Prime 95 for years, and to have it suddenly fail, is in all certain fail.
Maybe there needs to be some kind of offical disclaimer (from someone that can confirm from AMD or respectable), that says these processors will fail normally with Prime 95, because until then people here are just going to keep on going by "yes my system is Prime 95 stable". if that is not really the case in any given circumstance.
Not for me, at least. The fact that it's prime95 that's failing isn't the main point. As I see it, if any correctly written program fails to execute properly, then the system it's running on isn't stable. Any properly written set of instructions should produce the same result on each system. If solitaire was the program that was failing instead of prime95, I'd still be saying the system isn't stable.

That so many systems are failing seems to me to indicate that it's just being very very good at finding instabilities. Maybe better than most people would like or need. After all, how many people are going to be "playing" a tough game of prime95 and have their evening game play end on sour note because of a crash just when they got to this interesting part... Not going to happen.
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post #2978 of 17049
11/10/12 at 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvaughn View Post

Not for me, at least. The fact that it's prime95 that's failing isn't the main point. As I see it, if any correctly written program fails to execute properly, then the system it's running on isn't stable. Any properly written set of instructions should produce the same result on each system. If solitaire was the program that was failing instead of prime95, I'd still be saying the system isn't stable.
That so many systems are failing seems to me to indicate that it's just being very very good at finding instabilities. Maybe better than most people would like or need. After all, how many people are going to be "playing" a tough game of prime95 and have their evening game play end on sour note because of a crash just when they got to this interesting part... Not going to happen.


You forgot to mention prime has not been updated in over 5 years.
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post #2979 of 17049
11/10/12 at 11:18pm
Quote:
As you can see, it DOES have the heat pipe connecting the VRM heatsinks with the NB heatsink, and that's actually why I think it runs cooler. It' BECAUSE the heatpipe transfers heat away from the NB to the VRM heatsink that it runs cooler. That's the setup the UD5 uses, and your UD7 even connects the southbridge to the NB and VRM heatsinks for the same reason. The dumb idea was to keep the NB on the UD3 isolated. There's no way to conduct the heat building up anywhere else, except into the air, which is a very poor conductor of heat, as we all know. Maybe I should take the heat sinks/pipe off of my old UDP4 board and retrofit it onto the UD3...

it doesn't fit , been there tried that lol.

The cooling solution on my 790gx board is vastly better than the one the ud3 came with. Its all copper and heat piped. I suppose you could mod it to fit. I didn't spend the time to do so.
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post #2980 of 17049
11/10/12 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

My H100's fans are intake, so the massive airflow (4 stock H100 Corsair fans at 60%) from that is all going right down onto the VRM cooler. I have not done anything to the motherboard itself, but I am also not using any FSB/NB/HT OC at all. I did add a 80mm fan because I did it to show an example and just decided to leave it since it didn't look bad, but I had the 5.0 long before then.

The board is a rev 1.1. In all honesty though, If you can get a UD7, do it. It has far superior cooling on the board, and the x16s are even farther apart.
Also, keep in mind the shear amount of voltage I'm shoving down this thing (1.536v after LLC... less then my 970BE actually tongue.gif ) and the amount of heat that makes to keep 5.0. It's not happening under 1.5v.

Thanks for time you took to explain your setup.

OK, I'll reconsider a UD7 at this point. It's going to cost about $40 more than the UD3, but I might rather pay the extra money for the piece of mind. I just don't know at this point. I guess the fact that Newegg.ca is currently discounting the UD7 from $215.99 down to $185.99, with a further $30 gift card to bring it down to $155.99 is a sign from god that I should just buy this right now and have done:smile.gif

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508CVF&nm_mc=OTC-PricebatCA&cm_mmc=OTC-PricebatCA-_-Motherboards+-+AMD-_-GIGABYTE-_-13128508CVF
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