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post #54801 of 67713
So can we sue software makers for not utilizing our cpu's properly? biggrin.gif
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post #54802 of 67713
No
We can only get their services to write codes only our platform can maximise.

biggrin.gif
post #54803 of 67713
Honestly that has been AMD's problem the whole time, software, not hardware; they should have made a stronger push for software to utilize their hardware better, rant over
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post #54804 of 67713
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Honestly that has been AMD's problem the whole time, software, not hardware; they should have made a stronger push for software to utilize their hardware better, rant over

Some demanding software, does use FX well (encryptors, video encoding, compressors etc). BUT, games is another story, because game devs think of the hardware available out there and they must allow for weaker CPUs to be able to play too.

To put it in another way. Suppose you make a game, so heavy and so well scaled, that can load the FX 100%. Suppose, that this game, will run at 60 fps on an FX8350, Then the "amazing" Pentium G3220, will find itself in this situation:



http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/244/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8350_vs_Intel_Pentium_Dual-Core_G3220.html

Translated: If the FX plays it in 60 fps, it will be unplayable on the Pentium (21 fps, assuming that it will able to cope with multiple threads). So, you, as the dev, do you want to exclude from your potential customers already those who bought a - quite new - Pentium? Most game devs don't...for now...

So, they can't make games so heavy as to utilize FX to its full potential, because it would kill lesser CPUs. Only the game company that makes Dragon Age Inquisition and FarCry (that i forget the name), has so far excluded the Pentiums from "official minimum requirements" and they did that because of 4 thread requirement, not because the game can saturate FX8 core.

Something similar would happen with older generation and lower clocked i3s. They would be a slidefest, if the game would manage to saturate an 8 core FX.
Edited by Undervolter - 11/10/15 at 12:09am
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post #54805 of 67713
The heavy game scenario happens on GPUs more often than CPUs.

If a game is so heavy graphics wise, people will always pick the BEST GPU around.
post #54806 of 67713
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

The heavy game scenario happens on GPUs more often than CPUs.

If a game is so heavy graphics wise, people will always pick the BEST GPU around.

Correct. Mine was a hypothetical scenario with CPU-bound game. The difference between programming for an enryption or video encoding software and a game, is exactly the way it's used. You can make an encryption software that can saturate an FX 100% and at the same time work on Pentium G. Simply the guy with Pentium G, will pass half a day waiting. The game on the other hand, either you can play it or not. Time will come, where game programmers will have, to load more cores, for the simple fact that Intel isn't increasing IPC in a meaningful way, but it's increasing core count too. So like it or not, if game devs must design more CPU hungry engines, they will have to go for more cores. Then, the Pentiums first and the older i3s, will start to bottleneck heavily. But, this will not come too soon (Zen will be mainstream by then).

This will also make FX age well. Of course, i may be wrong, but i think Intel wouldn't like it either to have people say "oh, no reason to buy i5 or i7, just buy i3s forever, the perfect gaming CPU". And Intel has many connections...
Edited by Undervolter - 11/10/15 at 12:34am
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post #54807 of 67713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Correct. Mine was a hypothetical scenario with CPU-bound game. The difference between programming for an enryption or video encoding software and a game, is exactly the way it's used. You can make an encryption software that can saturate an FX 100% and at the same time work on Pentium G. Simply the guy with Pentium G, will pass half a day waiting. The game on the other hand, either you can play it or not. Time will come, where game programmers will have, to load more cores, for the simple fact that Intel isn't increasing IPC in a meaningful way, but it's increasing core count too. So like it or not, if game devs must design more CPU hungry engines, they will have to go for more cores. Then, the Pentiums first and the older i3s, will start to bottleneck heavily. But, this will not come too soon (Zen will be mainstream by then).

yessir! Your analogies always hit the target.

The fact that Intel pulled off an 8-core Xeon and labelled it for the enyhusiast market means something.

Multiple thread is here to stay. And I wish ZEN will adopt Intel-based instruction sets rather than their own, (FMA3, FMAXX) so no love will be lost on the translation. If they can pull off an ST performance of the weakest Intel and multiply that into a huge number of cores, we will have a winner.
post #54808 of 67713
I dont know what the go was realy. i deal with i5 i7 builds daily through work majority with samsung pro and hyper x ssd's decided to build a FX build because i hadnt used amd for 10 years , straight after boot it just felt so lethargic and laggy compared to even the i5 builds we usualy do (comparing it directly to hundreds of i5/i7 builds) im talking stock i5 i7 here no overclocks as they are usualy for bussines use. 3rd 4th 5th gen intel. so anyway booted up my 8350 on a hyper x pred ssd, and thought to myself that it was broken. like i have i3's that boot quicker and feel more responsive. in saying that since then i have overclocked the FX to 4.5ghz on air and it made it notably better but id have to say it still feels about the same as a stock second gen i5? i know these are budget orientated and the price i paid is less then a stock 5th/6th gen i5 but i was just expecting more. i see alot of you people that talk them up are running 4.9-5ghz. does there speed dramatically increase after 4.6? just curious to see if its worthwhile to put in a water loop and try OC it more before i replace it with a tryed and proven i7. (would probably be similar priced to going water cooled as it would be to change over?)
i notice the lag the most in photoshop even against my third gen laptop i5 it struggles
post #54809 of 67713
Meh: my sister-in-law whose work involves Photoshop, my GF same job, say my home fx build at 4.8 is snappier than their work PC.

Just optimisation maybe.

And yep, I built all the work PC in the office. (same as their office. lol) Everyone is on an i5, SSDs, 16GB RAM.

4.5 is a good spot. But you will outright feel things improve a hefty after 4.7.
Edited by mus1mus - 11/10/15 at 1:50am
post #54810 of 67713
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg View Post

I dont know what the go was realy. i deal with i5 i7 builds daily through work majority with samsung pro and hyper x ssd's decided to build a FX build because i hadnt used amd for 10 years , straight after boot it just felt so lethargic and laggy compared to even the i5 builds we usualy do (comparing it directly to hundreds of i5/i7 builds) im talking stock i5 i7 here no overclocks as they are usualy for bussines use. 3rd 4th 5th gen intel. so anyway booted up my 8350 on a hyper x pred ssd, and thought to myself that it was broken. like i have i3's that boot quicker and feel more responsive. in saying that since then i have overclocked the FX to 4.5ghz on air and it made it notably better but id have to say it still feels about the same as a stock second gen i5? i know these are budget orientated and the price i paid is less then a stock 5th/6th gen i5 but i was just expecting more. i see alot of you people that talk them up are running 4.9-5ghz. does there speed dramatically increase after 4.6? just curious to see if its worthwhile to put in a water loop and try OC it more before i replace it with a tryed and proven i7. (would probably be similar priced to going water cooled as it would be to change over?)
i notice the lag the most in photoshop even against my third gen laptop i5 it struggles

I've set up 2600K, and 3770k rigs with Identical ram and SSD's and OS's to my FX rigs and the Intel's can't hold a candle to them as far as being nimble in the desktop.
You can clock the Intel's to the moon and it doesn't change things. I forced myself to run the 3770k ( at 4.7ghz on a thermaltake extreme water 2.0 ) exclusively for about 10 days , the damn thing frustrated the beans out of me, honest to goodness, the thing made me tired using it . I couldn't stand it any longer than that - I banished it to my nephew's basement where it found it's niche as a guest machine for friends that come over to play .

The I7's I have "feel" closer to my 6800K in the desktop, I'd have a hard time telling between them if it were a blind test.

I don't have a lot of faith in the Asrock motherboards, my 990 Extreme 3 is painfully slow by comparison to my GD 80 or CHV-Z's. I don't have a clue as to why it behaves this way. ( sata controller perhaps?? )

The best way I know if to gimp FX performance is using mismatched or poorly tuned ram, but I've seen people fight thermal throttling too.
What are your temps? Socket and core? What cooling are you using? ( if you say 212..... expect a facepalm lol).

The quickness in desktop won't be effected too much by clockspeed , when properly configured, there just isn't much room for improvement , they are darn quick at stock.
I can however tell if I' running stock vs 5 ghz on my 8350's.
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