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post #54811 of 68053
Alrighty Mus here you go:


Win 7:




Win 10:




It's weird because I've seen all 8 cores hit 100% usage in Win 7 though.....no idea why it doesn't anymore headscratch.gif
Edited by Sgt Bilko - 11/10/15 at 1:42am
 
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post #54812 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Alrighty Mus here you go:


Win 7:




Win 10:




It's weird because I've seen all 8 cores hit 100% usage in Win 7 though.....no idea why it doesn't anymore headscratch.gif

* puts on tinfoil hat* I'm about sure I did too, in the earliest of 3dmark versions also seemed like it was much easier to break 10 k in physics too. I'll have to browse my results.
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post #54813 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I've set up 2600K, and 3770k rigs with Identical ram and SSD's and OS's to my FX rigs and the Intel's can't hold a candle to them as far as being nimble in the desktop.
You can clock the Intel's to the moon and it doesn't change things. I forced myself to run the 3770k ( at 4.7ghz on a thermaltake extreme water 2.0 ) exclusively for about 10 days , the damn thing frustrated the beans out of me, honest to goodness, the thing made me tired using it . I couldn't stand it any longer than that - I banished it to my nephew's basement where it found it's niche as a guest machine for friends that come over to play .

The I7's I have "feel" closer to my 6800K in the desktop, I'd have a hard time telling between them if it were a blind test.

I don't have a lot of faith in the Asrock motherboards, my 990 Extreme 3 is painfully slow by comparison to my GD 80 or CHV-Z's. I don't have a clue as to why it behaves this way. ( sata controller perhaps?? )

The best way I know if to gimp FX performance is using mismatched or poorly tuned ram, but I've seen people fight thermal throttling too.
What are your temps? Socket and core? What cooling are you using? ( if you say 212..... expect a facepalm lol).

The quickness in desktop won't be effected too much by clockspeed , when properly configured, there just isn't much room for improvement , they are darn quick at stock.
I can however tell if I' running stock vs 5 ghz on my 8350's.

I remember my first CB run on a hexa Intel. The thing feels like, it's still trying to figure out what to do with the app. A couple seconds or more delay compared to an FX.

I think the thing gathers all the source code first before running it. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Alrighty Mus here you go:


Win 7:




Win 10:




It's weird because I've seen all 8 cores hit 100% usage in Win 7 though.....no idea why it doesn't anymore headscratch.gif

Hmmm nice. Thank you. I'll try to capture the 4790K tomorrow for a quick compare.

thumb.gif
post #54814 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg View Post

I dont know what the go was realy. i deal with i5 i7 builds daily through work majority with samsung pro and hyper x ssd's decided to build a FX build because i hadnt used amd for 10 years , straight after boot it just felt so lethargic and laggy compared to even the i5 builds we usualy do (comparing it directly to hundreds of i5/i7 builds) im talking stock i5 i7 here no overclocks as they are usualy for bussines use. 3rd 4th 5th gen intel. so anyway booted up my 8350 on a hyper x pred ssd, and thought to myself that it was broken. like i have i3's that boot quicker and feel more responsive. in saying that since then i have overclocked the FX to 4.5ghz on air and it made it notably better but id have to say it still feels about the same as a stock second gen i5? i know these are budget orientated and the price i paid is less then a stock 5th/6th gen i5 but i was just expecting more. i see alot of you people that talk them up are running 4.9-5ghz. does there speed dramatically increase after 4.6? just curious to see if its worthwhile to put in a water loop and try OC it more before i replace it with a tryed and proven i7. (would probably be similar priced to going water cooled as it would be to change over?)
i notice the lag the most in photoshop even against my third gen laptop i5 it struggles

Maybe you run Win7 without the 2 microsoft Bulldozer patches or maybe the CnQ of FX is "less snappy" than Intel? I know for a fact, that AM3s feel laggy with CnQ compared to FX. BUT, if you use K10State and change the up and down timers to 100/200ms, you can't tell the difference. Also boot time is influenced by any kernel drivers (3rd party software) is loading.

Anyway, here's a program to eliminate bias or placebo effect (at least to a degree):

http://www.passmark.com/products/apptimer.htm

It would be interesting for people who have both FX and Intel to run this. And also ponder at the end, if it's humanly perceptible the difference or only placebo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post


The I7's I have "feel" closer to my 6800K in the desktop, I'd have a hard time telling between them if it were a blind test.

Funny you say that, it was mentioned the same thing lately in a post in my local forum. Whether one could tell the difference between FX and Intel if he was to play a game without FPS counter and without being told what's inside. Everytime you know what you do, there is a bias. That's why in medicine, for drug trials they do "double blind trials", where both the patients and the doctors don't know what's the real drug and what's the placebo. They 've found that even a researcher that tries to follow an objective methodology, if he anticipates subconsciously a result, he will steer the end result to match his subconscious expectation. He will interpret the result in a way, to deviate from truth, as much as his personal bias allows, to match his original expectation.
Quote:
I don't have a lot of faith in the Asrock motherboards, my 990 Extreme 3 is painfully slow by comparison to my GD 80 or CHV-Z's. I don't have a clue as to why it behaves this way. ( sata controller perhaps?? )

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but i stopped using AMD SATA due to the Asrock 970 extreme3. Every now and then, in the event viewer it will throw an event about SATA (like SATA reset or something else, i don't remember). Which you otherwise don't detect. This goes away if you use MS AHCI drivers.
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post #54815 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I've set up 2600K, and 3770k rigs with Identical ram and SSD's and OS's to my FX rigs and the Intel's can't hold a candle to them as far as being nimble in the desktop.
You can clock the Intel's to the moon and it doesn't change things. I forced myself to run the 3770k ( at 4.7ghz on a thermaltake extreme water 2.0 ) exclusively for about 10 days , the damn thing frustrated the beans out of me, honest to goodness, the thing made me tired using it . I couldn't stand it any longer than that - I banished it to my nephew's basement where it found it's niche as a guest machine for friends that come over to play .

The I7's I have "feel" closer to my 6800K in the desktop, I'd have a hard time telling between them if it were a blind test.

I don't have a lot of faith in the Asrock motherboards, my 990 Extreme 3 is painfully slow by comparison to my GD 80 or CHV-Z's. I don't have a clue as to why it behaves this way. ( sata controller perhaps?? )

The best way I know if to gimp FX performance is using mismatched or poorly tuned ram, but I've seen people fight thermal throttling too.
What are your temps? Socket and core? What cooling are you using? ( if you say 212..... expect a facepalm lol).

The quickness in desktop won't be effected too much by clockspeed , when properly configured, there just isn't much room for improvement , they are darn quick at stock.
I can however tell if I' running stock vs 5 ghz on my 8350's.

hmmm could be my asrock board? what would you replace it with? i had major socket temp issues untill i rigged up a fan to block on the back of the cpu. Burn test on medium comes back ok can fail on high intel burn test after a couple solid hours due to heat. running a big noctor dual fan , core temp never gets near limits but socket temps do





Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Maybe you run Win7 without the 2 microsoft Bulldozer patches or maybe the CnQ of FX is "less snappy" than Intel? I know for a fact, that AM3s feel laggy with CnQ compared to FX. BUT, if you use K10State and change the up and down timers to 100/200ms, you can't tell the difference. Also boot time is influenced by any kernel drivers (3rd party software) is loading.

Anyway, here's a program to eliminate bias or placebo effect (at least to a degree):

http://www.passmark.com/products/apptimer.htm

It would be interesting for people who have both FX and Intel to run this. And also ponder at the end, if it's humanly perceptible the difference or only placebo.
Funny you say that, it was mentioned the same thing lately in a post in my local forum. Whether one could tell the difference between FX and Intel if he was to play a game without FPS counter and without being told what's inside. Everytime you know what you do, there is a bias. That's why in medicine, for drug trials they do "double blind trials", where both the patients and the doctors don't know what's the real drug and what's the placebo. They 've found that even a researcher that tries to follow an objective methodology, if he anticipates subconsciously a result, he will steer the end result to match his subconscious expectation. He will interpret the result in a way, to deviate from truth, as much as his personal bias allows, to match his original expectation.
I don't know if it's a coincidence, but i stopped using AMD SATA due to the Asrock 970 extreme3. Every now and then, in the event viewer it will throw an event about SATA (like SATA reset or something else, i don't remember). Which you otherwise don't detect. This goes away if you use MS AHCI drivers.

Its not like its realy slow i just found it decently slower then an i7 (perceived difference and timed boot) forgot to mention it was with a clean image on both. the intel booted and was operational about 20 sec quicker )
post #54816 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but i stopped using AMD SATA due to the Asrock 970 extreme3. Every now and then, in the event viewer it will throw an event about SATA (like SATA reset or something else, i don't remember). Which you otherwise don't detect. This goes away if you use MS AHCI drivers.

Not just SATA, I also let Windows' drivers for the USB ports.

They run at 60+ MBPS after OS install and goes down to 20+ MBPS when I try instslling AMD Chipset drivers.

That might also contribute to the lagginess.
post #54817 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg View Post


Its not like its realy slow i just found it decently slower then an i7 (perceived difference and timed boot) forgot to mention it was with a clean image on both. the intel booted and was operational about 20 sec quicker )

Well, i don't know, it may very well be that Intel boots faster... From a kill a watt i have, the FX isn't pushed much during boot. It might have to do with how MS optmizes the boot... I 've only seen 2 i3 rigs in colleague's houses, but they were already on and i wasn't impressed. But i can't judge them, because people love to run a gazillion of programs at startup.

For inside Windows, one can run Apptimer. This thread should have a good methodology:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/how-lean-and-mean-is-your-security-setup.339316/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Not just SATA, I also let Windows' drivers for the USB ports.

They run at 60+ MBPS after OS install and goes down to 20+ MBPS when I try instslling AMD Chipset drivers.

That might also contribute to the lagginess.

Interesting. I will have to try this. I usually only transfer big files ( several GB size) to external drivers through USB and during transfer i haven't noticed any performance loss. But small files may work differently. What kind of software can i use to measure the USB port speed?
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post #54818 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg View Post


Its not like its realy slow i just found it decently slower then an i7 (perceived difference and timed boot) forgot to mention it was with a clean image on both. the intel booted and was operational about 20 sec quicker )

Well, i don't know, it may very well be that Intel boots faster... From a kill a watt i have, the FX isn't pushed much during boot. It might have to do with how MS optmizes the boot... I 've only seen 2 i3 rigs in colleague's houses, but they were already on and i wasn't impressed. But i can't judge them, because people love to run a gazillion of programs at startup.

For inside Windows, one can run Apptimer. This thread should have a good methodology:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/how-lean-and-mean-is-your-security-setup.339316/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Not just SATA, I also let Windows' drivers for the USB ports.

They run at 60+ MBPS after OS install and goes down to 20+ MBPS when I try instslling AMD Chipset drivers.

That might also contribute to the lagginess.

Interesting. I will have to try this. I usually only transfer big files ( several GB size) to external drivers through USB and during transfer i haven't noticed any performance loss. But small files may work differently. What kind of software can i use to measure the USB port speed?

The company I work for needed 4 workstations for industrial control, after getting an outrageous bid from the big box companies, they asked me to build them .
Basically they ran window's XP 32 bit, Rockwell factory view and the full office suite.

I built them using the msi nf 980 motherboard, Intel X -25 SSD's, gskill 1600mhz ram, 1055T's and they have caviar blacks for storage. I remember how shocked my boss was at seeing excel open before his finger bounced up from clicking the mouse. Also, when first deployed, they would boot in 11 seconds... 6 to post 5 to load XP. The fellows that installed factory view were in love with them, dropping in new programming was so much faster than any other rigs they had used.
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post #54819 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg View Post

hmmm could be my asrock board? what would you replace it with? i had major socket temp issues untill i rigged up a fan to block on the back of the cpu. Burn test on medium comes back ok can fail on high intel burn test after a couple solid hours due to heat. running a big noctor dual fan , core temp never gets near limits but socket temps do
.

I forgot.

First, abnormally high socket temps (which actually, according to Still's revelation, isn't socket temp, but CPU on die temp), are typical of Asrock motherboards. One has to live with that... Or put fans everywhere. biggrin.gif

IBT AVX on medium isn't enough for stability. You need at least Very High to have a 99% chance to be stable. In undervolting, IBT "standard" is usually 2 voltage notches (in BIOS) away from being stable. I don't know in overclocking. So your CPU is actually doing calculation errors, but usually within the hardware correction abilities, so you don't BSOD. But this slows down the CPU calculation.

See the monumental post by RagingCain:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1500294/why-some-people-dont-like-prime95/60#post_22531179

Personally, even if Intels are faster in desktop. i really don't care. I keep my system light enough, that the desktop performance of the FX with CnQ at mere 4Ghz, is absolutely satisfactory. I mean, we 're playing with 0.1 seconds here (see thread posted above from wilderssecurity).
Edited by Undervolter - 11/10/15 at 3:00am
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post #54820 of 68053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

I forgot.

First, abnormally high socket temps (which actually, according to Still's revelation, isn't socket temp, but CPU on die temp), are typical of Asrock motherboards. One has to live with that... Or put fans everywhere. biggrin.gif

IBT AVX on medium isn't enough for stability. You need at least Very High to have a 99% chance to be stable. In undervolting, IBT "standard" is usually 2 voltage notches (in BIOS) away from being stable. I don't know in overclocking. So your CPU is actually doing calculation errors, but usually within the hardware correction abilities, so you don't BSOD. But this slows down the CPU calculation.

See the monumental post by RagingCain:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1500294/why-some-people-dont-like-prime95/60#post_22531179

Personally, even if Intels are faster in desktop. i really don't care. I keep my system light enough, that the desktop performance of the FX with CnQ at mere 4Ghz, is absolutely satisfactory. I mean, we 're playing with 0.1 seconds here (see thread posted above from wilderssecurity).

heres intel burn very high, aida used for logging stats. as you can see core temps are low but that socket temp.....

this is at 4.4ghz on air drawing 1.3v mobo set to 1.4v anything less is unstable

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