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post #61211 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

again, if you can't get over about memory clocks, move aside.

1600 ?-?-?-?
1866 ?-?-?-?
2400 ?-?-?-?

There's a reason why you see a lot of positive gains on an Intel rig and not much on the FX.

Ever heard of Cache?

Take a look at Haswell, you do know that Ring on Haswell runs pretty high, right? 4 GHz and over. FX does have what? 2.6 GHz? 3Ghz for very those lucky ones?

Along with their architecture and memory controller efficiency, they can mask up timing-induced latencies going into higher clocks by sheer bandwidth. But, play along the timings and you will still see bigger performance gains.

That is also true with the FX. But we are rather limited by the bandwidth. So to going up higher with RAM frequencies gain you much lesser effect than on an Intel rig. And there, you should consider timings.

So stop saying memory clocks don't give you noticeable effect on an FX. It's how you tune those clocks that matters. Period.

Honestly, for a daily use machine that needs stability over anything else, memory speed just does not seem to make any real noticeable difference. I have 4 x 8GB sticks of Sapphire AMD branded ram and whether I used the 2 x 1600 speed ram alone or just installed all 4 sticks and ran them at the 1333 speed of the other 2 sticks, I do not notice any real difference. Mind you, I am not running benchmarks on this because I only really care about something I can notice without a benchmark program. (That is how I received the ram in January of 2015 but, they where supposed to be all 4 x 1333 speeds.)

Ram was bought on clearance at that time when it cost twice as much as the $170 I payed at the time.
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post #61212 of 67694
I guess you missed the last sentence of the post you quoted.

1333 9-9-9-27-1T will be on par with a 1600 10-10-10-30-1T for example.

Let's go back to Intel, saying memory clocks give them very noticeable jump in performance is just pure bullocks.

Haswell rig with 2400 MHz 10-12-12-1T performs just a few percent less than a Skylake rig with 4000MHz 16-16-16-35-1T for that matter.

16-16-16 may be a tad hard to achieve rather for 4000MHz. biggrin.gif
post #61213 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

I guess you missed the last sentence of the post you quoted.

1333 9-9-9-27-1T will be on par with a 1600 10-10-10-30-1T for example.

Let's go back to Intel, saying memory clocks give them very noticeable jump in performance is just pure bullocks.

Haswell rig with 2400 MHz 10-12-12-1T performs just a few percent less than a Skylake rig with 4000MHz 16-16-16-35-1T for that matter.

16-16-16 may be a tad hard to achieve rather for 4000MHz. biggrin.gif

Its a combination of speed and timings. The sweet spot for Haswell is ~2400 CL10, but it still makes gains outside of that sweet spot due to the increased bandwidth. Ive run a number of different combinations on both platforms and the FX chips don't gain much from speed as much as timings. Which is why cheap 2133 or 2400 kits tend to not give you much in return, because they are CL 11 or worse.

FWIW the FX rig I used daily for 4 years seemed to work best at 1866 CL9. 2133 CL10 is only slightly better than that from a latency perspective, perhaps 2%.

AFAIK the FX series chips are bandwidth bound at the core <-> cache level due to the oddball way it retires instructions. L1 store bandwidth is only as good as L2 store bandwidth because of the cache policy employed in the design, L1 reads are full speed as expected though. This is why latency helps more than bandwidth.
Edited by KarathKasun - 7/8/16 at 8:57am
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post #61214 of 67694
First of all, those of you who are taking passive aggressive swipes at people actually contributing, you need to just stop. This isn't a community for elitist pricks who like to get into dick swinging contests. I've been on this site since 2006, been building PCs since the early 90's. I know a few things, and from time to time i share what i know. What i know is that for most purposes, and in my personal experience with my builds and OC's, tuning memory has a very minimal impact on overall performance. It can have a measurable impact in some synthetic benchmarks, and in some games, and in some content creation workloads...but its really on a case by case basis and rarely noticeable with the naked eye . The overwhelming majority of data i have seen from reputable media sources and forum members in the past shows that memory speeds of 1600 provide more than enough bandwidth to handle most tasks on current gen FX platforms. Having more bandwidth than you need doesn't yield better performance. Having it is nice, but unless you have tasks that utilize it, or a processor that can handle the extra load, its moot.

I've done testing before, extensively, to verify sources like LTT claims on the subject. My results were in line with his and countless other tech sources in the media and otherwise. Jays 2 cents has a similar video on an AMD system that shows the same thing.

No one has to trust LTT or Jays 2 cents or Toms hardware or Anandtech or any other source. Easy enough to do a Bench yourself. I did one this morning. My test bench and method was as follows...

8320E Locked at 4.0GHz (undervolted @ 1.238v)
16GB Gskill Ripjaws @ at stock speed 2133MHz C11
ASRock Fatility 970 performance (all power saving and turbo settings disabled in BIOS)
MSI 390X at stock speeds (1080MHz core /1500MHz mem)

Using Thief 1.7 Benchmarking utility with all settings at max and Mantel enabled.

I did 7 runs so i could actual get a margin of error to compare. Here are the results.

Min: 56.6---58.0---57.7---56.9---58.0---55.8---57.1

Max: 89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---90.5---89.1

AVG: 72.4---72.3---72.8---72.5---73.1---73.3---72.2


Next i made a single change to my BIOS. I changed my Ram Frequency to 1600MHz but left the timings the same.

Min: 52.6---55.8---54.5---56.1---55.8---55.6---54.2

Max: 89.1---90.5---90.0---88.7---89.6---90.5---88.7

AVG: 71.0---71.9---71.1---71.5---71.1---71.1---70.5

I will let the results speak for themselves. I am not claiming this is the end all be all of all results or all tests. I am simply saying that this is what i get when i do tests that anyone can reproduce with similar hardware and software. I get it similar results on every benchmark i do and every test i preform. You can dissect it however you like.
post #61215 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

First of all, those of you who are taking passive aggressive swipes at people actually contributing, you need to just stop. This isn't a community for elitist pricks who like to get into dick swinging contests. I've been on this site since 2006, been building PCs since the early 90's. I know a few things, and from time to time i share what i know. What i know is that for most purposes, and in my personal experience with my builds and OC's, tuning memory has a very minimal impact on overall performance. It can have a measurable impact in some synthetic benchmarks, and in some games, and in some content creation workloads...but its really on a case by case basis and rarely noticeable with the naked eye . The overwhelming majority of data i have seen from reputable media sources and forum members in the past shows that memory speeds of 1600 provide more than enough bandwidth to handle most tasks on current gen FX platforms. Having more bandwidth than you need doesn't yield better performance. Having it is nice, but unless you have tasks that utilize it, or a processor that can handle the extra load, its moot.

I've done testing before, extensively, to verify sources like LTT claims on the subject. My results were in line with his and countless other tech sources in the media and otherwise. Jays 2 cents has a similar video on an AMD system that shows the same thing.

No one has to trust LTT or Jays 2 cents or Toms hardware or Anandtech or any other source. Easy enough to do a Bench yourself. I did one this morning. My test bench and method was as follows...

8320E Locked at 4.0GHz (undervolted @ 1.238v)
16GB Gskill Ripjaws @ at stock speed 2133MHz C11
ASRock Fatility 970 performance (all power saving and turbo settings disabled in BIOS)
MSI 390X at stock speeds (1080MHz core /1500MHz mem)

Using Thief 1.7 Benchmarking utility with all settings at max and Mantel enabled.

I did 7 runs so i could actual get a margin of error to compare. Here are the results.

Min: 56.6---58.0---57.7---56.9---58.0---55.8---57.1

Max: 89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---90.5---89.1

AVG: 72.4---72.3---72.8---72.5---73.1---73.3---72.2


Next i made a single change to my BIOS. I changed my Ram Frequency to 1600MHz but left the timings the same.

Min: 52.6---55.8---54.5---56.1---55.8---55.6---54.2

Max: 89.1---90.5---90.0---88.7---89.6---90.5---88.7

AVG: 71.0---71.9---71.1---71.5---71.1---71.1---70.5

I will let the results speak for themselves. I am not claiming this is the end all be all of all results or all tests. I am simply saying that this is what i get when i do tests that anyone can reproduce with similar hardware and software. I get it similar results on every benchmark i do and every test i preform. You can dissect it however you like.

Just waiting for...

"But you didnt OC to 4.8ghz with a CPU-NB of 3000 and you are not using a Sabertooth, therefore those results are invalid." rolleyes.gif
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post #61216 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

First of all, those of you who are taking passive aggressive swipes at people actually contributing, you need to just stop. This isn't a community for elitist pricks who like to get into dick swinging contests. I've been on this site since 2006, been building PCs since the early 90's. I know a few things, and from time to time i share what i know. What i know is that for most purposes, and in my personal experience with my builds and OC's, tuning memory has a very minimal impact on overall performance. It can have a measurable impact in some synthetic benchmarks, and in some games, and in some content creation workloads...but its really on a case by case basis and rarely noticeable with the naked eye . The overwhelming majority of data i have seen from reputable media sources and forum members in the past shows that memory speeds of 1600 provide more than enough bandwidth to handle most tasks on current gen FX platforms. Having more bandwidth than you need doesn't yield better performance. Having it is nice, but unless you have tasks that utilize it, or a processor that can handle the extra load, its moot.

I've done testing before, extensively, to verify sources like LTT claims on the subject. My results were in line with his and countless other tech sources in the media and otherwise. Jays 2 cents has a similar video on an AMD system that shows the same thing.

No one has to trust LTT or Jays 2 cents or Toms hardware or Anandtech or any other source. Easy enough to do a Bench yourself. I did one this morning. My test bench and method was as follows...

8320E Locked at 4.0GHz (undervolted @ 1.238v)
16GB Gskill Ripjaws @ at stock speed 2133MHz C11
ASRock Fatility 970 performance (all power saving and turbo settings disabled in BIOS)
MSI 390X at stock speeds (1080MHz core /1500MHz mem)

Using Thief 1.7 Benchmarking utility with all settings at max and Mantel enabled.

I did 7 runs so i could actual get a margin of error to compare. Here are the results.

Min: 56.6---58.0---57.7---56.9---58.0---55.8---57.1

Max: 89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---89.6---90.5---89.1

AVG: 72.4---72.3---72.8---72.5---73.1---73.3---72.2


Next i made a single change to my BIOS. I changed my Ram Frequency to 1600MHz but left the timings the same.

Min: 52.6---55.8---54.5---56.1---55.8---55.6---54.2

Max: 89.1---90.5---90.0---88.7---89.6---90.5---88.7

AVG: 71.0---71.9---71.1---71.5---71.1---71.1---70.5

I will let the results speak for themselves. I am not claiming this is the end all be all of all results or all tests. I am simply saying that this is what i get when i do tests that anyone can reproduce with similar hardware and software. I get it similar results on every benchmark i do and every test i preform. You can dissect it however you like.

Just waiting for...

"But you didnt OC to 4.8ghz with a CPU-NB of 3000 and you are not using a Sabertooth, therefore those results are invalid." rolleyes.gif

Actually I'd be interested to see how the memory speed is affected is more than one game (Frostbite would be a good test)

That and an update to the sig rigs for both of you would be great so people aren't confused as to what you are using currently smile.gif
 
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post #61217 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Actually I'd be interested to see how the memory speed is affected is more than one game (Frostbite would be a good test)

That and an update to the sig rigs for both of you would be great so people aren't confused as to what you are using currently smile.gif

My sig rigs are what I am running currently, and it does not matter as some of us have access to other machines for testing.

Ill give an educated guess of 0%-10% seeing as the worst case scenario is 10%-15% and the above results are 1%-8% for minimum FPS.
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post #61218 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Actually I'd be interested to see how the memory speed is affected is more than one game (Frostbite would be a good test)

That and an update to the sig rigs for both of you would be great so people aren't confused as to what you are using currently smile.gif

My sig rigs are what I am running currently, and it does not matter as some of us have access to other machines for testing.

Ill give an educated guess of 0%-10% seeing as the worst case scenario is 10%-15% and the above results are 1%-8% for minimum FPS.

I'd like to test it for myself but a lack of time means it simply won't happen, as I said before I'll still recommend 2133 to damn near every FX user out there regardless simply because price wise there is no sense in paying the same for less.
 
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post #61219 of 67694
I honestly CBA to do any testing because all of the data I, as well as others, have linked/posted matches my experiences. At this point, if anyone wants to argue the point the burden of proof is on them. The other side of the argument has shown no data to back up their point.
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post #61220 of 67694
It might have been 2 years ago now, but a fellow did some testing of ram speeds at different overclocks complete with graphs and such. I'm not going to bother digging it out now so from memory........

1333 memory sucked at all clocks. 1600 worked best for stock to decent overclocks with 1866 matching or beating it up to 4.7 or so where they kinda flat lined but with 1866 getting a small jump at higher clocks. After that the faster ram started improving and from 4.8 and up 2133 and then 2400 provided much better performance by 5 ghz.

This was done by AMD users as an internal test with no sniping involved.
Junkyard Dog
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Blackie
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Junkyard Dog
(17 items)
 
Blackie
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 1700 Biostar X370 GT7 Sapphire Nitro Fury G. Skill Ripjaws ddr4 3200 16 GB 4x4 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 500gb SSD Western Digital 500gb  Memorex Lightscribe dvd Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 64bit Pixio 27" 1440P yes Seasonic 850 watt  
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone Redline RL05 Evoluent vertical mouse yes Creative X-FI  
Other
Sennheiser headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX8370 @ 5 ghz ASUS Sabertooth Sapphire Fury G Skill F3-14900CL9Q-16GBXL 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Samsung 850 EVO Memorex Lightscribe dvd Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win X 64 bit Pixio 27" 1440P  yes Seasonic SS-850KM Active PFC F3 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone Redline RL02b Evoluent VM4 yes Creative Soundblaster Z  
Audio
Sennheiser 428 headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
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