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post #61241 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

He doesn't consider timings, that's why.

2400 CL 11 is meh compared to 2133 CL 9 as you knew.

How convenient you missed this post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Its a combination of speed and timings. The sweet spot for Haswell is ~2400 CL10, but it still makes gains outside of that sweet spot due to the increased bandwidth. Ive run a number of different combinations on both platforms and the FX chips don't gain much from speed as much as timings. Which is why cheap 2133 or 2400 kits tend to not give you much in return, because they are CL 11 or worse.

FWIW the FX rig I used daily for 4 years seemed to work best at 1866 CL9. 2133 CL10 is only slightly better than that from a latency perspective, perhaps 2%.

AFAIK the FX series chips are bandwidth bound at the core <-> cache level due to the oddball way it retires instructions. L1 store bandwidth is only as good as L2 store bandwidth because of the cache policy employed in the design, L1 reads are full speed as expected though. This is why latency helps more than bandwidth.

Keep lying to try and attack somebody, makes you look so good.
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post #61242 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

AIDI64 scores are great and all, but they do not translate into extra performance in many cases.

Most people seem to be around 4.7ghz even now, so if the above summary of ram vs core clocks is true 1866-2133 would be the most anyone with an average setup would need. The speed gains would not be huge either, but 2133 is the cheap speed for DDR3 now and there isnt much reason to not get that speed. Just don't expect more than ~5% gains on average if you are coming from 1600 in real world situations.

It IS a gain, but its nothing to really write home about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Not willing to spend a lot of time on it, but this is a quick way of demonstrating the differences I sometimes see in gaming - notice the @ 15% gain in multi -threaded fps.

Then there is the nearly 12 % gain in DX11 Single-threaded draw calls per frame. The gains I typically see also come where they are needed the most, minimum frame rate.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/aot/150917/aot/150914/aot/150911

Dual ranked Kingston Beasts 1.65 volts 2400 mhz NB for all tests shown

Which is pretty much in line with my claims. ~15% in the worst case with the most "cherry picked" numbers, kinda like that FO4 article.

Which claim exactly? .... you changed your tune midstream.

10 to 15 % gained is in many cases the difference between running an i 7 and an FX and the price of 2400mhz memory vs 1600 mhz is no where close to the gap between an FX and an i 7 prices.



@FlailScHLAMP has an excellent handle on the situation, you'd do well listen to him.
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post #61243 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

How convenient you missed this post...
Keep lying to try and attack somebody, makes you look so good.

Lying?

You posted it so well, you have been running your FX at 1866 CL 9.. Which CL9 exactly? 9-11-9? Better specify it coz you are claiming your own misconceptualized set-up!

Latency jumps with Timings. Going from 1866 9-9-9-24-1T to 2133 10-10-10-30-1T and expecting gains is exactly a no-brainer! Your bandwidth will be offset by a higher latency. So do your research before posting your results.

If you can't run your memory with a 2133 9-11-9-27-1T, then you are simply not understanding things. And should never make such vlaims based off some reviewers who have no time to spare to learn how to set-up an FX rig.
post #61244 of 68054
He has almost always been an amd hater and frankly wrong most of the time. But acts like he is never wrong.

I just ignore him 99% of the time.

@orkin don't you know 5% and 15% are the same?
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post #61245 of 68054
What would my current 2000MHz 9-9-10-27 1CR clock equate to?
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post #61246 of 68054
Probably Better than 2133 9-11-9-27-1T. thumb.gif

My previously fine 2000 8-8-9 Ballistix score better than my 2400 10-12-12-31-1T for sure outside Aida 64 Bandwidth test. Sadly, they stopped working on dual channels with any board I put them. frown.gif
post #61247 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Lying?

You posted it so well, you have been running your FX at 1866 CL 9.. Which CL9 exactly? 9-11-9? Better specify it coz you are claiming your own misconceptualized set-up!

Latency jumps with Timings. Going from 1866 9-9-9-24-1T to 2133 10-10-10-30-1T and expecting gains is exactly a no-brainer! Your bandwidth will be offset by a higher latency. So do your research before posting your results.

If you can't run your memory with a 2133 9-11-9-27-1T, then you are simply not understanding things. And should never make such vlaims based off some reviewers who have no time to spare to learn how to set-up an FX rig.

Aaaand, you move the goalposts to correct yourself again. thumb.gif

What happened to...
Quote:
He doesn't consider timings, that's why.
First, who in the hell would run 1866 @ 9-11-9-28? Second, latency is measured in ns, timings are in clock cycles. 9 cycles at 1866 is 9.65ns, 10 cycles at 2133 is 9.38ns. An improvement of a little under 3% as I had already said.

You are simply repeating what I said in my post and acting like what you have repeated is more correct. And then you claim that the speed my memory runs at is 100% my fault as if there is no variance in parts. Keep digging that hole for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post


Which claim exactly? .... you changed your tune midstream.

10 to 15 % gained is in many cases the difference between running an i 7 and an FX and the price of 2400mhz memory vs 1600 mhz is no where close to the gap between an FX and an i 7 prices.



@FlailScHLAMP has an excellent handle on the situation, you'd do well listen to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

He has almost always been an amd hater and frankly wrong most of the time. But acts like he is never wrong.

I just ignore him 99% of the time.

@orkin don't you know 5% and 15% are the same?


10-15% is nothing in terms of scaling if you want to go down that road. There is already data on i7 gaining 20% or more from the same memory speed jump in those tests, so you are still behind at the end of the day. An i7 K series processor starting with the i7-2600k will do better and they start at a whopping $150 in the used market. So, no, price is not a valid argument there.

As for 15%, that is literally the worst case scenario you showed... pretty much the same as the FO4 benchmarks. Average gains will be nowhere near 15%. Post up some actual game based benchmarks instead of synthetics like some other people have. Min FPS gains in the 5% range and avg FPS gains in the 2% range. While using the 2400 timings for the 1600 results no less, which skews the results in favor of the 2400 ones.

Come at me with your data, not a load of personal attacks.

P.S.
Totally an AMD hater when I built an FX rig for myself on launch and sold people on them for the first two or three years when their prices were much closer to Intel's chips. FX had its place, that place is about 4 years back now.
Edited by KarathKasun - 7/10/16 at 9:53am
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post #61248 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Aaaand, you move the goalposts to correct yourself again. thumb.gif

What happened to...
First, who in the hell would run 1866 @ 9-11-9-28?
stock timings on gskill 1866 cl9 sticks are 9-10-9-28...so id wager a lot of people do...especially of trying to do 4 dimms at 4gb each...i seen a slight improvement in benches and a slight improvement in minimum fps (4-5fps)going from gskill kit above at stock to a gskill ripjaws 2133mhz 9-10-9-28....all other items stayed the same...it wasnt a huge difference but it could definately help someone who was struggling to maintain 60fps...
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post #61249 of 68054
Prelude to the great price collapse...

Microcenter: FX8320E $89.99.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/437624/FX_8320E_Black_Edition_32GHz_Eight-Core_Socket_AM3_Boxed_Processor

Lucky Americans...
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post #61250 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Aaaand, you move the goalposts to correct yourself again. thumb.gif

What happened to...
First, who in the hell would run 1866 @ 9-11-9-28? Second, latency is measured in ns, timings are in clock cycles. 9 cycles at 1866 is 9.65ns, 10 cycles at 2133 is 9.38ns. An improvement of a little under 3% as I had already said.

You are simply repeating what I said in my post and acting like what you have repeated is more correct. And then you claim that the speed my memory runs at is 100% my fault as if there is no variance in parts. Keep digging that hole for yourself.

Correct my self? Where did that come from? thinking.gif

1. 9-11-9-27-2T - default XMP for a Kingston HyperX, Beast, etc 1866. What timings does your kit have? You either can't remember or simply have no idea what you were buying.

2. Second, latency is measured in ns, timings are in clock cycles. 9 cycles at 1866 is 9.65ns, 10 cycles at 2133 is 9.38ns

Show a data to back this up. You surely have an idea how cache will dramatically alter these parameters.

3. Again, your 2133 CL 10 is meh! What can you expect?

4. I am not repeating what you are saying. You have no idea how to set-up an FX and it's Memory. Stop turning the table.

5. Yes, it's your fault to expect much gains going from 1600 to 2400 when you are not considering the timings and things that can affect Memory Efficiency. Comparing Intel and AMD on that regards is your best bet?

thinking.gif
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