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post #62481 of 67694
Speaking of crappy Asrock, small update. Despite the fact that the VRM heatsink doesn't get hotter than 60C, i measured with IR thermometer the back of the motherboard, at the VRM area. There is a difference. The center of the VRM is hotter, the 2 extremities are cooler, by 10C. On the center, the measurements were:

Idle : 52C
IBT AVX: 99C.

That's a bit scary and makes you wonder why motherboard manufacturers don't put a bigger VRM cooler, instead of just having RMAs, unsatisfied customers, etc.
Edited by Undervolter - 10/5/16 at 11:52am
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post #62482 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Yes, i don't care about colours. You gave me an idea though. I took it off, put it as rear exhaust and took the rear exhaust and put it at its place as top side fan. Problem solved. Now it's silent as you say. Lesson learnt. This is a fan for exhaust. Also, my temps fell. At the 9th IBT Test (to have the same reference), the CPU temp fell from 68C to 60C.



(Before http://www.overclock.net/t/1612857/i-found-out-why-biostar-isnt-selling/10#post_25560855)

That's quite a drop. The ambient is 2C lower today, but this still leaves another 6C difference with before. Considering that my front intake is 1050 RPM and the other low side fan is 1200 RPM, if i put higher RPM fans, i could make drop furher. But with noise... However, i think the main problem is VRM temp, so if i could fit a slim Scythe behind the motherboard tray, i think it would be the definitive move. This ASrock has decent brand mosfets (NXP low RDSon), but the problem is that they are few. So if i were to cool them actively, i think the CPU temp would plummet. Anyway, for now, the temp is acceptable. Until next summer i will have replaced the mobo.
I never needed a socket fan before either. But when you have crappy motherboard, no water cooler can save you.

Trivia about the AC F12: They are coded by color as well as by the label. There are many different versions and some are bad while some rival the Gentle Typhoons. The F12 PWM CO is a good one especially in pull mode. It looks like you got the one that they put on their coolers. That is an especially good one and is rare.
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post #62483 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

Trivia about the AC F12: They are coded by color as well as by the label. There are many different versions and some are bad while some rival the Gentle Typhoons. The F12 PWM CO is a good one especially in pull mode. It looks like you got the one that they put on their coolers. That is an especially good one and is rare.

Well, i don't think i got a cooler model,because the connector has 3 pin cable. I think, judging by the specs, that it's this one:

https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/f12.html

Although, now that i 've put it as exhaust and set in bios to "full on", it runs at 1550 RPM. The previous exhaust was 1400RPM. However, this Arctic appears to be moving much more air.
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post #62484 of 67694
Has anyone else tried to measure the temperature on the back of the motherboard corresponding to the VRM area? I googled a bit to find if there is a universally accepted "safe temp" for mosfets, but came out with nothing.
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post #62485 of 67694
Ghetto rig, take 2! Woo hoo!

Took the Scythe 60mm fan, and anchored it between the Arctic F12 case fan and the 8pin power cable with zip tie.


Result. Again, at the 9th IBT AVX test:




CPU 55,5C (vs 60 before).

The best part! Measured the mosfets on the back side of the motherboard with IR thermometer. Max temp 88C, most of the time was between 85C and 77C. That's 11C drop in the worst case, 22C in the best.

Considering that the hardest thing i will do (x264) draws 20W less, I 'd say i am ok! I mean, i have 5 Asrock 970 Extreme3. I couldn't just sit and consider them all wasted, could it? Undervolting and VRM fan FTW! thumb.gifbiggrin.gif




I am not even sure it's worth it to buy yet another motherboard at this point. I still have the 2 Giga UD3P, who are 8 phases anyway. In total i have 5 spare motherboards. Heck at that VRM temp, even if they die one every year, i will still make 5 years out of them...

I will also change thermal pads and paste on northbridges if i find time at Xmas. This Asrock currently runs better than the UD3P i 'd say. At least no USB or audio glitches. It's a shame to replace it. Also, i was surprised at how many fan headers this non fully ATX motherboard has. They came in handy.

Boy, that was a happy ending for an adventurous undervolting story! Never had so much trouble with a motherboard undervolted before! After all, a mosfet doesn't know in how many phases you 've put it in. It only knows if it's sweating or not. I bet many overclockers have worse temps than mine on the back of their mobo...

So, yeah, it's 4+1 phase, but the mosfet stays at 88C at IBT. Not too bad.

P.S.: Did i mention that i have to buy a lot of these wonderful Scythe 60mm fans? Yes, i did! tongue.gif They do the job and are silent too! I actually have a multiheader thing that is adhesive to any flat surface of the case you want and you can connect something like 4+ fans on it. Never used it. I could put another Scythe fan on the northbridge too, like i had it before with that thingie...
Edited by Undervolter - 10/5/16 at 2:14pm
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post #62486 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

I still have the 2 Giga UD3P, who are 8 phases anyway.
4 with a doubler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

makes you wonder why motherboard manufacturers don't put a bigger VRM cooler, instead of just having RMAs, unsatisfied customers, etc.
Segmentation and penny-pinching.
post #62487 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

4 with a doubler.
Segmentation and penny-pinching.

1) I don't know who invented this nomenclature, but i find it moronic and i will never adopt it. To me, the logical thing to say, is that it is "8+2 phases using doubler" or "8+2 phases doubled". Because the motherboard still has double the amount of mosfets and chokes compared to the normal 4+1 phase. As a result, they are not comparable, neither in heat tolerance nor in overclocking potential. The only thing the doubler does, is split a signal. Besides, most if not all AM3+ motherboards, use doublers. I went to 4.5Ghz IBT stable on the UD3P, without using any VRM fan and without installing a 2nd side fan. Not even close to the "normal" 4+1, such as the Asrock.

2) Very true.And they probably think that it's worth the RAM risk, compared to spending more on every single motherboard. In the specific case of the 970 Extreme3, they became even more inventive, since at a couple of years after release, they simply quietly removed the FX8320/50 from the CPU compatibility list. Maybe this way they can even deny RMA: "What? You want RMA and you had 8350??? But, it was never supported, look at our website!". biggrin.gif
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post #62488 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

4 with a doubler.
Segmentation and penny-pinching.

. The only thing the doubler does, is split a signal. Besides, most if not all AM3+ motherboards, use doublers.

Not the good ones. They say there's "no difference" aside from voltage frequency but I believe that's BS.
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post #62489 of 67694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan45 View Post

Not the good ones. They say there's "no difference" aside from voltage frequency but I believe that's BS.

There should be a difference. I am not good with these things and it's a long time since i read it, but, my understand is that the use of doublers, will increase the load on the mosfets, because they will have less time between phase switch compared to full 8 phases. This will result in more heat in the doubled phase. However, it still twice as good as a 4+1 phase, cause it has double the chokes/components, so the same job is done by double the components. The full 8 phase, will have double the components and double the "relax" time for the mosfets. At least i think.
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post #62490 of 67694
There are many different scheme when it comes to doubling some better than others. This is taken from Sin's guide here http://sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-articles/82-vrm-guide if you want some reading.


Edited by Johan45 - 10/6/16 at 5:38am
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Bench
(9 items)
 
Intel Bench
(8 items)
 
DVD Player
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 9370,FX 8350, FX 6350, PII X4 965 ASUS Crosshair V Formula z, ASUS Sabertooth 990... 2x ASUS GTX580 DCUII, ASUS HD 6970 G.Skill Flare 1800, Pi Black 2000 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Kingston Hyperx 3K Phobya Supernova 1260 Koolance 380a Win7 Pro 64 Leadex SuperFlower 1K 
Case
Banchetto 101 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k Asus Maximus VIII Hero Evga GTX 980Ti K|NGP|N G.Skill TridentZ 3600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 850 Pro Dragon Extreme F1 Windows 7 / Vista /XP Superflower Leadex 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 5 1600x MSI x370 Titanium ASUS GTX980 DCII G.Skill Trident Z RGB  
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Phanteks Enthoo Luxe 
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