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post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheByt3 View Post

I am not from the US, I am fro Greece. Become a what? I don't get it?
I am in my 3rd year of university (Computer Science of some sort) and have used at first just notepad and CMD so now I'm in the phase of using an IDE but why at the final stage you just want an Advanced text editor with a personal touch? Aren't IDEs useful for correcting your mistakes and saving up time by completing what you want to write in the code? I mostly use IDEs because I like how much faster I am with them.

Hmm... what's up neighbour!
The second option is a risky decision from my point of view, because Ruby, RoR, Python in the recent years more and more popular, but you can't always be sure that there will be job positions, unlike Java or C#.

My turn to present myself. I'm from Bulgaria, 4rd year BSc. Software Engineering. I'm certified Linux administrator. And I'm working as a web developer for a living. In some of my free time I'm developing hobby software for AVR microcontrollers.

I have met lots of developers in my life and the best of them are Linux users using Vim or Emacs or Mac users with Vim.
By "personal touch" I meant that you end up writing yourself IDE, which suits you best.
And no IDEs should not correct your mistakes, after all programmers are men, not machines.
IDEs should help you do your job faster, and enfoce you company rules/guidelines.
When you reach the moment when the IDE slows you down (slow project loading, slow VCS commit, etc.) instead for helping you, you end up writing your own "IDE". (Advanced text editor with personal touch)

PS. A friend of mine is developing Win8 app and his desktop wallpapper is crashed VS 2012 "searching for a solution to the problem".
PS2. I still use IDE for the web development because I'm still learning the platform I use as a base. But I may end up hooking some plugins to Vim and switch to it.
Edited by metala - 11/22/12 at 8:49pm
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post #42 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post

If you are a good programmer you won't need IDE.
Let me put it this way:
Simple text editor (e.g. Notepad) - starting up to mediocre programmer
IDE (e.g. NB or VS) - from starting programmer to good one
Advanced Text Editor with a personal touch (e.g. vim, emacs) - from a good programmer to master/hacker
PS. Yeah. There probably will be an argument to about my post, but let me say that this is generally true, not always, but generally.

There's a difference between needing something and choosing to use something because it increases productivity.

I've written and compiled smaller C/C++ projects entirely from the command line before, but when you start scaling up some projects, the tools IDEs provide can and often do make managing the project a lot less painful and thus allows you to concentrate on pumping out good code.
post #43 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

There's a difference between needing something and choosing to use something because it increases productivity.
I've written and compiled smaller C/C++ projects entirely from the command line before, but when you start scaling up some projects, the tools IDEs provide can and often do make managing the project a lot less painful and thus allows you to concentrate on pumping out good code.

100% agree with this one 'ere.
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post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

There's a difference between needing something and choosing to use something because it increases productivity.
I've written and compiled smaller C/C++ projects entirely from the command line before, but when you start scaling up some projects, the tools IDEs provide can and often do make managing the project a lot less painful and thus allows you to concentrate on pumping out good code.

True. But maniging even larger project in IDE is a pain. Slow downs, slow load, many opened resources, lots of memory usage... you know the usual stuff. Is it normal that on Core i3 w/ 4GB RAM, a single VS2012 solution loads of a whole minute?
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post #45 of 76
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Originally Posted by metala View Post

True. But maniging even larger project in IDE is a pain. Slow downs, slow load, many opened resources, lots of memory usage... you know the usual stuff. Is it normal that on Core i3 w/ 4GB RAM, a single VS2012 solution loads of a whole minute?

That pretty much describes every solution MS have released though. tongue.gif
post #46 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post

True. But maniging even larger project in IDE is a pain. Slow downs, slow load, many opened resources, lots of memory usage... you know the usual stuff. Is it normal that on Core i3 w/ 4GB RAM, a single VS2012 solution loads of a whole minute?

I have a 20 project solution. VS 2012 loads it in under 10 seconds on my machine, I just timed it.
It is hard to say if it is normal or not - I'd need to know the exact details of the solution and more info about your VS configuration.

If you're having a problem, you can drop Jason Zander a line - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/

I do all the time and he gets someone from the team to help me out smile.gif (They even did a live debugging session with me once).
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post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post

Simple text editor (e.g. Notepad) - someone who does simple scripting (bash, csh, perl, python, lua etc.), ghetto web developer, masochist, someone with no internet access
Advanced Text Editor with a personal touch (e.g. vim, emacs) - scripter, someone who learned programming in the 80's, Linux/C fanboy, someone who wants to look l33t
IDE (e.g. NB or VS) - everyone else

FTFY. Choice of development environment usually has nothing to do with someone's skill as a programmer.
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post #48 of 76
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Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

FTFY. Choice of development environment usually has nothing to do with someone's skill as a programmer.
Lovely. Thank you. I guess this is another point of view. Off course this is based on your observations, I suppose, and this don't match mine.
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post #49 of 76
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Originally Posted by metala View Post

Lovely. Thank you. I guess this is another point of view. Off course this is based on your observations, I suppose, and this don't match mine.

I used to be part of the "use a text editor to look awesome", and "look, ma! no IDE!", but I got sick of stupid command line crap and now I really can't live without F5. If someone can tell me that F5 is less efficient than anything else, go home LOL.

smile.gif
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post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

FTFY. Choice of development environment usually has nothing to do with someone's skill as a programmer.
lol that's so true for me. Learnt to program in the 80's, Linux user and generally use advanced text editors or Vim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post

Lovely. Thank you. I guess this is another point of view. Off course this is based on your observations, I suppose, and this don't match mine.
At risk of sounding like a troll, your lack of experience there speaks more about your ability to program than what development environment you use.

Just in my current company alone, there's a dozen developers and each one uses a different development environment ranging from Linux CLI editors, Windows text editors through to full blown IDEs. Yet we all pretty much develop the same code. It was a similar case in my past jobs too.

Some people feel more at home verbosely defining each process and laboriously typing out command line jobs; while others prefer auto completes and hot keys. Then there's a whole plethora of people that sit between the two extremes. That doesn't mean any one of those individuals is a better programmer than the other; that just means that one persons brain is wired differently to the other and thus works better in a different development environment than the other. Any other comparison you make beyond that is just egotistical poppycock.
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