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[DailyTech] Windows 8 Early Adoption is Well Behind Pace Set by Windows 7 - Page 3

post #21 of 233
1. Windows 8 will never have an official Windows 7 theme/UI. Take it or leave it.
2. Windows 8 is fundamentally better than Windows Vista.
3. There are some improvements over Windows 7. Whether they benefit you is a different story.
4. Adoption in the corporate world should be low due to the additional UI and UI changes. Users will be easily confused.
5. What benefit are "Metro" apps in corporate usage on desktop PCs anyway?
6. There should be a group policy setting for corporate departments.
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post #22 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerITGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator View Post

There is no way it reaches 20 to 25% in the corporate environment... unless they dump metro on the desktop and just bring back the regular start menu.
As of right now, I think Win 8 is far worse than Vista was.

How's that?

Hating on the UI is one thing, but when you look past that, Windows 8 is a much superior OS than Windows 7.

Vista on the other hand was just unusable at release.

I was using Vista from beta and while it had its issues, it was just as if not more usable for me, Metro really does put a damper on it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator View Post

There is no way it reaches 20 to 25% in the corporate environment... unless they dump metro on the desktop and just bring back the regular start menu.
As of right now, I think Win 8 is far worse than Vista was.

that is literally factually wrong

At least with Vista you have full OS control.

It's very arguable, not "factually wrong" at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Looks like I'm gonna have to share it again. Warnings about the Windows 8 UAC by RagingCain.


that's a good change, Linux and OSX use the similar admin system

as for the MS deleting stuff from your PC, that's only for Metro apps and for known viruses and malicious software. It's already done in Windows 7 via system updates.

Err, except Linux and OS X allow you to access the root account and alter everything, MS is clearly angling to change that. I don't wish to give away any actual control of my PC to a 3rd party, if I want to completely change security, etc settings then I should be able to...The other question is why is MS locking this down?

Read this: "User Administrators are no longer Admin, but are considered "Soft Admin" a type of blended shell layered 3rd Party Software Administrator ONLY. You have to go into your local security policies to disable this extra layers of protection from users, ONLY after you have figured out how to natively convert your account to a local user, then a local admin, and have UAC switched off via GUI interface. Then you can must make the changes in LocSec. Furthermore, this is just UAC, which acts like OSX Gatekeeper, you are still no longer a true administrator to your OS. The only administrator is the Windows 8 internal Administrator account, which must be logged into to make all systemic level changes."

You can clearly see that it's preventing you from making some major changes, one such change could be allowing the "soft admin" account to install files from a MSI or EXE file but only from the MS App Store.
    
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post #23 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

6. There should be a group policy setting for corporate departments.

Not sure what you mean by this. There will of course be a whole bunch of GPO changes necessary to make W8 presentable in the corporate world, and I'm sure 99% of the knobs and dials will be in place to do so as long as IT has enough time to figure it out.. What there "should be" is a setting that enables the freaking old school start menu. That wont ever happen because MS is chasing Apple instead of focusing on the sector in which they have a commanding lead, so W8 will probably flop worse than Vista in the business realm.

I have seen large scale Vista deployments. I will be amazed if I see any large scale W8 deployments before 2014, or when IT feels comfortable enough that most of their users have already tried W8 for themselves at home.
    
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post #24 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

MS App Store.
This is your clue right here. All devices, except for true PC's running PC version of Win8, have no access to 3rd party software at this point. Not saying it's all over, this is likely to be one of the easiest jailbreaks ever, just that every time the software updates it will most likely scan for unsigned apps and re-disable them. Hassle and cattle-prodding, all of which is not outside of the MS MO.

Edit to include the "better" version of the Surface Tablet for 3rd party apps, which from my experience have very limited access to the rest of the system (on my pc).
Edited by un-midas touch - 10/23/12 at 10:46pm
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post #25 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post

Not sure what you mean by this. There will of course be a whole bunch of GPO changes necessary to make W8 presentable in the corporate world, and I'm sure 99% of the knobs and dials will be in place to do so as long as IT has enough time to figure it out.. What there "should be" is a setting that enables the freaking old school start menu. That wont ever happen because MS is chasing Apple instead of focusing on the sector in which they have a commanding lead, so W8 will probably flop worse than Vista in the business realm.
I have seen large scale Vista deployments. I will be amazed if I see any large scale W8 deployments before 2014, or when IT feels comfortable enough that most of their users have already tried W8 for themselves at home.

I meant it exactly the way you just wrote that post....
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post #26 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I was using Vista from beta and while it had its issues, it was just as if not more usable for me, Metro really does put a damper on it for me.
At least with Vista you have full OS control.
It's very arguable, not "factually wrong" at all.
Err, except Linux and OS X allow you to access the root account and alter everything, MS is clearly angling to change that. I don't wish to give away any actual control of my PC to a 3rd party, if I want to completely change security, etc settings then I should be able to...The other question is why is MS locking this down?
Read this: "User Administrators are no longer Admin, but are considered "Soft Admin" a type of blended shell layered 3rd Party Software Administrator ONLY. You have to go into your local security policies to disable this extra layers of protection from users, ONLY after you have figured out how to natively convert your account to a local user, then a local admin, and have UAC switched off via GUI interface. Then you can must make the changes in LocSec. Furthermore, this is just UAC, which acts like OSX Gatekeeper, you are still no longer a true administrator to your OS. The only administrator is the Windows 8 internal Administrator account, which must be logged into to make all systemic level changes."
You can clearly see that it's preventing you from making some major changes, one such change could be allowing the "soft admin" account to install files from a MSI or EXE file but only from the MS App Store.

Local admin account has been disabled since Vista, is this something different?
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post #27 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

I meant it exactly the way you just wrote that post....

okey dokey
    
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post #28 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Local admin account has been disabled since Vista, is this something different?

Several of the UAC's are persistent, only changeable through the registry editor. They have also been integrated to the level that they cause loss of some functions if disabled.
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post #29 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I was using Vista from beta and while it had its issues, it was just as if not more usable for me, Metro really does put a damper on it for me.
At least with Vista you have full OS control.
It's very arguable, not "factually wrong" at all.
Err, except Linux and OS X allow you to access the root account and alter everything, MS is clearly angling to change that. I don't wish to give away any actual control of my PC to a 3rd party, if I want to completely change security, etc settings then I should be able to...The other question is why is MS locking this down?
Read this: "User Administrators are no longer Admin, but are considered "Soft Admin" a type of blended shell layered 3rd Party Software Administrator ONLY. You have to go into your local security policies to disable this extra layers of protection from users, ONLY after you have figured out how to natively convert your account to a local user, then a local admin, and have UAC switched off via GUI interface. Then you can must make the changes in LocSec. Furthermore, this is just UAC, which acts like OSX Gatekeeper, you are still no longer a true administrator to your OS. The only administrator is the Windows 8 internal Administrator account, which must be logged into to make all systemic level changes."
You can clearly see that it's preventing you from making some major changes, one such change could be allowing the "soft admin" account to install files from a MSI or EXE file but only from the MS App Store.

Local admin account has been disabled since Vista, is this something different?

You are right, by default Vista/7 etc. internal Administrator is disabled. The difference being, creating a user that was an administrator had identical privileges. Now no longer the case. You are not an administrator in Windows 8, even if you are a local admin.

It is now the equivalent of a power power user (double power included) as you do have the ability through 4 or 5 more hoops to give your local admin close to full administration with a small caveat: you break MetroUI which includes the desktop underlining. Even a few other services no longer executable in what the OS considers a non safe system. Something I have never seen before on Windows.

Windows Update forces your settings back to "stock" but I can't determine if its before getting updates, applying updates, or post updates. On a few occasions the Windows Update service was completely broken until I manually reverted FULL control access from my account.

Edit:
Basic Break Down:
Windows 7 - Create User, Usually Defaults first user to Admin
UAC - Notifies you only, asks/prompts your choice. It is fully disabled in Account Options.

Windows 8 - Create Online ID, Convert to Local User (or start here with creating a local user), add to Administrators Group. Mine did not automatically get added.
UAC - Disables all unsigned .exe (unsigned being anything MS doesn't approve of), Notifies/Prompts for administration access to programs signed, Prevents Access to System Functions even as Admin. Prevents installation of any non-signed executable.
Partially reduced functionality when disabled in Account Options.
Requires configuring of Local Security Policies to allow Administration level access to install/uninstall items.

Integrated with the entire system MetroUI, which includes the desktop interface, so disabling it does break configurations.
System functions such as Windows Update, Defender access, seem to restore UAC control behind the scenes. I again admit have not narrowed down which specific event causes, just the overarching use of such features.

Brutuz hit it right on the head. It's like using Linux and not having access to root, but through a round about way of getting access to root, and then periodically losing access to root when certain events or services flag it.

This is officially more locked down than OSX. One step away from a mobile device where we will need to root our computers.
Edited by RagingCain - 10/23/12 at 11:23pm
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Snowdevil
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post #30 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

To me, this is another one of those bulldozer issues. I REALLY have to see how it is an improvement before I get excited. If the code is more efficient than windows 7 by a fair amount (something that would offset the price and offer a real advantage) then no one should be complaining because you can simply mod the funky UI and a lot of the other issues away to make the OS a efficient version of windows 7.
However, that is with the assumption that the software is as good as you say. If it isn't then the most I will hope for is a new service pack for win 7. smile.gif

The thing is, people have made up their minds before trying it out, once you get around it, it's actually more efficient, faster, etc... than the old UI/Start button.

And the performance is just through the roof, it will be one of the 1st things people will notice as well.

Windows 8 was built from the ground up, so it's not just a Windows 7 refresh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I was using Vista from beta and while it had its issues, it was just as if not more usable for me, Metro really does put a damper on it for me.

Completely disagree with you here mate, the RTM build was a complete abomination, its compatibility was pretty much non existent (drivers).
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [DailyTech] Windows 8 Early Adoption is Well Behind Pace Set by Windows 7