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[VRZ] Nvidia's Green Light Program Overclocking Limitations - Origins and Implications - Page 14

post #131 of 182
Since Linux had this ditched AGES ago, I say all this hype is a bunch of hogwash. I flashed my card, now it runs at 560 speeds. =o Best part, you really can't screw a flash. Worst comes to worse, you blind flash it back to stock. I even wrote a .bat on a separate usb stick when I did it. If I failed, I stick the other usb stick in and give it a few minutes. Come back, card back to stock speeds and I can try again. For the record, I didn't screw up and it was extremely easy to do. FreeDOS
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post #132 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

No one knows what Nvidia told it's engineers but it's pretty clear from all the commentary on these cards that Nvidia's reference designs are cheaper then AMD's at this point.
Honestly Arizonian I'm surprised to see you defending this. I know you like Nvidia cards (I do to) but this really is just a giant F U to the overclocking community regardless of whether it makes business sense or if you can still get a decent overclock out of current cards.

I wish it were different but I cannot deny your right as I'm also against the over clocking limitations and not defending that one bit.

I do like to play devils advocate sometimes to think things thoroughly. Looking at their point of view it's a valid point to protect your products. I'm reluctant to think that as long as it's profitable it won't change and if it ends up being the death of them then I fear what the monopoly will be charging.

Personally I found it wasn't the green eyed monster I expected when I switched. I'm enjoying 3D Vision in movies and games. If that should end, I will not hesitate to make the switch again. At the moment their offering is more appealing for my needs regardless of their voltage locking.
     
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post #133 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

I wish it were different but I cannot deny your right as I'm also against the over clocking limitations and not defending that one bit.
I do like to play devils advocate sometimes to think things thoroughly. Looking at their point of view it's a valid point to protect your products. I'm reluctant to think that as long as it's profitable it won't change and if it ends up being the death of them then I fear what the monopoly will be charging.
Personally I found it wasn't the green eyed monster I expected when I switched. I'm enjoying 3D Vision in movies and games. If that should end, I will not hesitate to make the switch again. At the moment their offering is more appealing for my needs regardless of their voltage locking.

You are so naive its almost cute smile.gif

if all the crap Nvidia says was true.. Then WHY AMD havent done the same thing?!?! after all they are in EXACTLY the same business selling the same products to the same market.. and they "suffer" from RMA´s too...

and they are in a "worst" position than Nvidia, market share wise.. this "move" according to Nvidia´s "logical" point of view make sense to them too..


waiting what non sense from " devils advocate" spill out now
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post #134 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAVO View Post

You are so naive its almost cute smile.gif
if all the crap Nvidia says was true.. Then WHY AMD havent done the same thing?!?! after all they are in EXACTLY the same business selling the same products to the same market.. and they "suffer" from RMA´s too...
and they are in a "worst" position than Nvidia, market share wise.. this "move" according to Nvidia´s "logical" point of view make sense to them too..
waiting what non sense from " devils advocate" spill out now

Well Nvidia made first move this year with locked voltage. We do have a few voltage locked AMD cards too it seems now. So let's wait until next year and see what stance AMD does actually take before jumping the gun. If they are smart those few locked cards are being monitored to see how they do in comparison. Waiting to see the fall out on Nvidia is also a smart move and that won't happen over night. Hence a profitable 3rd Quarter from Nvidia just being posted today.

Again I'm not defending voltage locking please because I could have used a little juice when I was benching. I'm an Nvidia user who's not happy about the situation. Don't confuse me in that category.

Your response is best if you get your point across without it becoming personal. wink.gif
     
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post #135 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Voltage is typically not a problem, but the heat. But given how poor nvidia's VRMs have been over the past couple generations, I'm not surprised. They have been skimping on quality design for quite some time now.

They just dont want to overbuild them to handle high voltages.

No, what they do is that their engineers are told that they want to build the best they can with the least cost possible, so they skimped on VRM design. So they design the chips to handle a voltage set for. It's shoddy engineering work; making it just reach the minimal spec. It's actually quite against our ethics training. We aren't suppose to but typically, we always end up with what is requested. It's obvious that nvidia doesn't care, they will skimp on anything they can just to save a few cents.

At least AMD have better standards.

And overbuilding benefits us anyway, it increases card life-time..Why do you think most modern good brand PSUs can put out more wattage than they're rated for?

What are you even talking about? You just went to the complete opposite spectrum in your argument. Nvidia cuts corners, engineers don't like that. The card doesn't live longer because of crappy-skimped VRM design and by no means can you call that quality.
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post #136 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

No, what they do is that their engineers are told that they want to build the best they can with the least cost possible, so they skimped on VRM design. So they design the chips to handle a voltage set for. It's shoddy engineering work; making it just reach the minimal spec. It's actually quite against our ethics training. We aren't suppose to but typically, we always end up with what is requested. It's obvious that nvidia doesn't care, they will skimp on anything they can just to save a few cents.
At least AMD have better standards.

I'd say that's false unless you work for NVidia or have some documented proof their engineers were told this. No it's not obvious NVidia dosen't care. rolleyes.gif

You stated an observation, not fact. Your welcome to your opinion. smile.gif

I'm an engineering student in Electrical Engineering; along side our ethical courses, we hear about this all the time, and the countless (the good ones anyways) engineers that switch jobs whenever they are told to do crap like this. Although I'm switching into Mechancial, call it an educated, and experience, opinion.

And since when do we have biased moderators? Isn't it your job to be moderate? The fanboy comment is unacceptable as well.
Edited by Domino - 11/10/12 at 7:00pm
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post #137 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

I'm an engineering student in Electrical Engineering; along side our ethical courses, we hear about this all the time, and the countless (the good ones anyways) engineers that switch jobs whenever they are told to do crap like this. Although I'm switching into Mechancial, call it an educated, and experience, opinion.
And since when do we have biased moderators? Isn't it your job to be moderate? The fanboy comment is unacceptable as well.

My questioning your comment regarding NVidia quality was fair as I didn't feel it was supported.

Moderators are allowed to comment, and even have a preference. I didn't attack any products in this post or personally insult you as you just did to me for not agreeing with your blanket statement. I don't moderate this section of OCN and will let the mods who do moderate it.
     
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post #138 of 182
I can understand why Nvidia wants to limit the need for replacement chips, but it is total bull crap to flatly state that they aren't forcing the AICs to do anything and that this is a bonus for consumers. That's called lying, people. Just like Razer with their software DRM explanation.
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post #139 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

I'm an engineering student in Electrical Engineering; along side our ethical courses, we hear about this all the time, and the countless (the good ones anyways) engineers that switch jobs whenever they are told to do crap like this. Although I'm switching into Mechancial, call it an educated, and experience, opinion.
And since when do we have biased moderators? Isn't it your job to be moderate? The fanboy comment is unacceptable as well.

How is what he said even biased?

Not agreeing with something you said doesn't equal bias.
Quote:
I wish it were different but I cannot deny your right as I'm also against the over clocking limitations and not defending that one bit.

I do like to play devils advocate sometimes to think things thoroughly. Looking at their point of view it's a valid point to protect your products. I'm reluctant to think that as long as it's profitable it won't change and if it ends up being the death of them then I fear what the monopoly will be charging.

Personally I found it wasn't the green eyed monster I expected when I switched. I'm enjoying 3D Vision in movies and games. If that should end, I will not hesitate to make the switch again. At the moment their offering is more appealing for my needs regardless of their voltage locking.

I agree in the sense that yeah Nvidia can do whatever they want it's THEIR STUFF. And I even think their products are still good.

My real issue is just that removing features is never a good thing. Even if the 680 was 50% faster then the 7970 while underclocked I'd still have a fundamental problem with this new philosophy. I don't know if it will cause me to go purely AMD from here on out. If the performance is 15% + over the competition it becomes a tough sell to go with the other guy despite any issues I have with their business practices and what I think they think about me. And this is even coming from someone who totally believes they aren't being entirely truthful about this and threatening to withold stock despite saying they just wouldn't extend a warranty. There is just too many people in the vidya card business saying the opposite.
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post #140 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Voltage is typically not a problem, but the heat. But given how poor nvidia's VRMs have been over the past couple generations, I'm not surprised. They have been skimping on quality design for quite some time now.

They just dont want to overbuild them to handle high voltages.

No, what they do is that their engineers are told that they want to build the best they can with the least cost possible, so they skimped on VRM design. So they design the chips to handle a voltage set for. It's shoddy engineering work; making it just reach the minimal spec. It's actually quite against our ethics training. We aren't suppose to but typically, we always end up with what is requested. It's obvious that nvidia doesn't care, they will skimp on anything they can just to save a few cents.

At least AMD have better standards.

And overbuilding benefits us anyway, it increases card life-time..Why do you think most modern good brand PSUs can put out more wattage than they're rated for?

What are you even talking about? You just went to the complete opposite spectrum in your argument. Nvidia cuts corners, engineers don't like that. The card doesn't live longer because of crappy-skimped VRM design and by no means can you call that quality.

What? I was saying that quality designs are beneficial to everyone as they make cards last longer/better, that's why a quality PSU can do well over its rated wattage.
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Stock Scissor Keyboard 90w Power Brick Samsung R540 Logitech M305 
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Ænema
(23 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Intel DG965SS PuTTY + OpenSSH G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-4GBNT (4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung Spinpoint F1 500GB Coolermaster Hyper TX3 FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64 Silverstone Strider Plus 500w 
Case
Former Acer SA50 case 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i3 370M @ 2.4Ghz Samsung R540 H55 Radeon HD545v 1GB 4GB DDR3-1066Mhz CL7 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Corsair Force Series 3 120GB DVD-RW slimline Arch Linux x86_86 - LXDE 15.6" 1366x768 LED Backlit Display 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Stock Scissor Keyboard 90w Power Brick Samsung R540 Logitech M305 
  hide details  
Reply
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