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post #111 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtreme21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You know that is only true if you have unlimited time to do it. Windows Vista broke compatibility with many Windows XP programs and they spent most of the time until Service Pack 1 and even afterwards delivering patches to improve / fix compatibility issues. They changed many low level things in Windows Vista for it to have been feasible to just upgrade a Windows XP machine and leave everything working, with all your programs installed. That is why you couldn't do a straight upgrade of the OS, you had to do a clean install.
The transition from Windows Vista to 7 wasn't so pronounced, and the truth is that they back ported many features with the Platform Update.
You will be upgrading right now, right ? If you do it later you will have to pay for the Media Center pack.
Wasn't aware of the last part. What does the Media Center pack consist of? I currently use XBMC with the CCCP Codec pack.

Well, since you are using third party software you have nothing to worry about.

If you were to rely on Microsoft, it would be another matter. It isn't very clear yet as Microsoft has been anything but clear on the matter. The truth is that they haven't yet said if the Media Center software will be bundled with the base edition of Windows 8. In fact, it appears that the base version of Windows will not be available at launch, only the Pro version. For the Pro version they have stated that the Media Center Pack will be "available as an economical “media pack” add-on to Windows 8 Pro.". But there is more to it, if you want to be able to play DVD's straight out of the box, you can't, because they removed that functionality too. That will also be made available as a paid option. But they haven't specified if it comes with the Media Center software or if it is stand alone. I'm not joking, we are one day away from the release and they still haven't clarified what each version of Windows 8 contains. Since the base version of Windows 8 won't even be available at launch, I bet they still haven't decided. This is how messy Windows 8 is.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/25/12 at 8:08am
 
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post #112 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I generally agree with you with regards to you comments about mobile computing and tablets, etc.
But here is where your logic fails.
IF Microsoft had, as I suggested earlier, the cell phone, lap top, tablet, and gaming console OS the same and had a separate OS for the desktop, then you would be 100% correct, and people could just not buy Windows 8 (aka Windows Mobile) and would have no good reason to complain that their desktop was looking and acting like a mobile device.
But that isn't the case. Microsoft is going to be FORCING people to move to their "Mobile Platform" eventually. Eventually they will not make Windows 7 anymore and eventually they will not support it. Thus people will not have the option of not using Windows 8 or 9 or 10 if they wish to remain connected to the internet and thus open themselves up to attack.
Therefor, people DO have a right to "poo poo" the mobile market, since they are going to be FORCED to deal with it.
As far as tablets being the future ... MAYBE you are right. But then again, people have been saying the electric car is the future, and they have been saying that for 105 years now. Since you are so good at predicting the future, mind telling me the winning lotto numbers for this week? wink.gif
Microsoft has made many predictions on what people have wanted and what the future will be ... and they have failed many times at that.
The Paperclip Help, Red Ring of Death, Microsoft Office 365, Windows Bob, Windows ME, MSN Smart Watch, MSN Music, PlayForSure, Kin, Zune, just to name a few, were all pretty much total disasters for Microsoft.

Well for one, the percentage of tablet or mobile computing adopters vastly out weighs the electric car adopters...thus bringing more creditbility to the trend. 2. W8 is perfectly fine on a Desktop. It hasn't taken anything away from W7 that would make it unuseable on the DT. I'm not sure how W8 has killed the DT?
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post #113 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Sorry to nitpick on your post, but how Was Clippy a fail?

It was just plain stupid. Most people hated it and turned it off. Thus it was never used. Now it is no longer an option. Thus, it was a failure.
post #114 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

However Windows 8 isn't change for the sake of change. Sure, if it was just a metro'd copy of Win7 I would've skipped it, but it it much, much more.

There is NOTHING in Windows 8 that COULDN'T have been implemented in a Windows 7 Service Pack.

Hyper-V - Could not be licensed for Windows 7
Optimized "online" (no restart) CHKDSK checking - Requires the new kernel

There are at least two. Microsoft will not use a Service pack to update the kernel (they haven't since 2000 SP2) because It can and will break at least some machines
post #115 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtreme21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You know that is only true if you have unlimited time to do it. Windows Vista broke compatibility with many Windows XP programs and they spent most of the time until Service Pack 1 and even afterwards delivering patches to improve / fix compatibility issues. They changed many low level things in Windows Vista for it to have been feasible to just upgrade a Windows XP machine and leave everything working, with all your programs installed. That is why you couldn't do a straight upgrade of the OS, you had to do a clean install.
The transition from Windows Vista to 7 wasn't so pronounced, and the truth is that they back ported many features with the Platform Update.
You will be upgrading right now, right ? If you do it later you will have to pay for the Media Center pack.
Wasn't aware of the last part. What does the Media Center pack consist of? I currently use XBMC with the CCCP Codec pack.

Well, since you are using third party software you have nothing to worry about.

If you were to rely on Microsoft, it would be another matter. It isn't very clear yet as Microsoft has been anything but clear on the matter. The truth is that they haven't yet said if the Media Center software will be bundled with the base edition of Windows 8. In fact, it appears that the base version of Windows will not be available at launch, only the Pro version. For the Pro version they have stated that the Media Center Pack will be "available as an economical “media pack” add-on to Windows 8 Pro.". But there is more to it, if you want to be able to play DVD's straight out of the box, you can't, because they removed that functionality too. That will be also be made available as a paid option. But they haven't specified if it comes with the Media Center software or if it is stand alone. I'm not joking, we are one day away from the release and they still haven't clarified what each version of Windows 8 contains. Since the base version of Windows 8 won't even be available at launch, I bet they still haven't decided. This is how messy Windows 8 is.
More out-of-base complaining about Windows 8. Sigh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Sorry to nitpick on your post, but how Was Clippy a fail?

It was just plain stupid. Most people hated it and turned it off. Thus it was never used. Now it is no longer an option. Thus, it was a failure.
Edited it, just remembered that I was one of the few to like him, lol
post #116 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

More out-of-base complaining about Windows 8. Sigh.

He asked a question, I answered with all the facts. First, what is the most relevant to him, but also what he should expect in terms of value for money (he might sell his HTPC to someone who prefers to use Media Center, and that will diminsh the value of the sale).

What I said was facts. FACTS. If Microsoft can't even say all the features that will be available with a product that will be launched tomorrow, it's surely something to be noted.
 
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post #117 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivacs View Post

Hyper-V - Could not be licensed for Windows 7
Optimized "online" (no restart) CHKDSK checking - Requires the new kernel

Hyper-V is for servers, thus doesn't need to be in a desktop OS. I doubt it will be on your Microsoft smartphone either.

While the CHKDSK without restarting would be "nice", it isn't needed. Most people don't do a CHKDSK but once a week (is at all), thus it really isn't all that of a headache ... especially when you couple that with the much touted "Windows 8 reboots so much faster now" feature.
post #118 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivacs View Post

Hyper-V - Could not be licensed for Windows 7
Optimized "online" (no restart) CHKDSK checking - Requires the new kernel

Hyper-V is for servers, thus doesn't need to be in a desktop OS. I doubt it will be on your Microsoft smartphone either.

While the CHKDSK without restarting would be "nice", it isn't needed. Most people don't do a CHKDSK but once a week (is at all), thus it really isn't all that of a headache ... especially when you couple that with the much touted "Windows 8 reboots so much faster now" feature.
sorry, no. VBox is a PITA, I'm hoping for a free virtualizing program that is not Oracle. I haven't tried VMWare, but that's mainly cos Client doesn't seem very good at all. Most comparisons of cleint HyperV are against Workstation, which weighs in at £170. And even then it's mixed results. That's just another thing that I like.

Also, have you ever tried to run chkdsk on someone's old IDE HDD? It takes over 3 hours to scan if it finds a single bad sector. In win 8 it only scans the bad sector. Drastic reduction of time is not enough. I've heard 2 second figures for thins being thrown around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

More out-of-base complaining about Windows 8. Sigh.

He asked a question, I answered with all the facts. First, what is the most relevant to him, but also what he should expect in terms of value for money (he might sell his HTPC to someone who prefers to use Media Center, and that will diminsh the value of the sale).

What I said was facts. FACTS. If Microsoft can't even say all the features that will be available with a product that will be launched tomorrow, it's surely something to be noted.

Maybe they're just trying to hype it, like any company would do?
post #119 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

sorry, no. VBox is a PITA, I'm hoping for a free virtualizing program that is not Oracle. I haven't tried VMWare, but that's mainly cos Client doesn't seem very good at all. Most comparisons of cleint HyperV are against Workstation, which weighs in at £170. And even then it's mixed results. That's just another thing that I like.
Also, have you ever tried to run chkdsk on someone's old IDE HDD? It takes over 3 hours to scan if it finds a single bad sector. In win 8 it only scans the bad sector. Drastic reduction of time is not enough. I've heard 2 second figures for thins being thrown around.

VMWare is nice. I've used many of the various visualization programs, and they all have their pro's and cons (mainly for my Folding@Home uses, but also to test various OS's, from DOS to Win95, Win98, Win2k, Win8, and 3 different distro's of Linux ... to check for program compatibility for our custom software we develop.). But to get back to the issue, I don't see a "licensing issue" as a "technical reason" for not doing it. To me, all that means is that negotiations failed (most likely because of a lack of desire to make it happen on Microsoft side, because an updated Windows 7 would be a threat to Windows 8).

Yes, I have run checkdisk on IDE drives. I've run them on RLL, MFM and other drives as well. Yes it takes longer, but then again, so did doing a COMPSURF on my Novell file server back in the 1980s. But I have to wonder, how many people who are still running an IDE hard drive will upgrade to Windows 8, just because they do a CHKDSK once a year?
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 10/25/12 at 8:34am
post #120 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Maybe they're just trying to hype it, like any company would do?

And maybe I'm just stating facts, like an objective potential consumer should be ?
 
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