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[Ars] - Windows, reimagined: A review of Windows 8 - Page 3

post #21 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

It's also the first time something like this was attempted. I'm fairly sure they'll improve and find the right balance as they get more feedback. A group of people working on the OS isn't as likely to find as many flaws as several million people using it for normal work.
Not to mention making changes takes time and lots of testing to make sure there aren't any bugs.

This just reinforces what I already said.. include during setup the option to use the "classic" UI. Would it of been that difficult? No, absolutely not. Preview builds of W8 let you switch between the Metro UI and "classic" UI. Were MS lazy not to give users the option to use the "classic" UI in the final build? Absolutely.
post #22 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketxxx View Post

This just reinforces what I already said.. include during setup the option to use the "classic" UI. Would it of been that difficult? No, absolutely not. Preview builds of W8 let you switch between the Metro UI and "classic" UI. Were MS lazy not to give users the option to use the "classic" UI in the final build? Absolutely.

As far as I know, there was no option in the preview builds. There was only a registry hack that only existed because legacy code wasn't removed yet.

And I've stated multiple times that giving that option would undermine the stated goals of unified experiences across platforms, and signal to users and investors that they do not have any faith in their new UI. It also can potentially deter developers from developing for the Marketplace if the Marketplace isn't going to be visible or promoted. Whether or not this was the right decision remains to be seen, and Microsoft has not taken away your ability to install custom skins.
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post #23 of 80
Quote:
For business and enterprise installations, where the upgrade cost — both in terms of time and money — is higher, I am more ambivalent. That the Metro interface cannot be disabled by system administrators is troubling. By installing Windows 8, companies will implicitly force its employees to use a new interface that could severely dent productivity. This issue is compounded by the fact that almost all of Windows 8 Desktop’s new features are oriented towards at-home consumers, rather than office workers. I think Windows 8 will be a very tough sell in the enterprise.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138177-under-the-hood-of-windows-8-or-why-desktop-users-should-upgrade-from-windows-7/3

It's not so much the start screen, it's the way Metro Apps also maximize and all.

edit: also developers take a gamble coding for it (the Metro UI side, not the desktop side)

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-reasons-windows-8-will-be-painful-for-developers/2885
Quote:
1: Market reboot

If you want your applications to be fully compatible with Windows 8 (including running on ARM CPUs), you’ll need to do a full rewrite in Windows 8/WinRT. This may be great for developers looking to break into markets with established players. But if you are the established player, you are suddenly back at square one.
2: The asynchronous model

Windows 8 development is highly dependent upon asynchronous operations for anything that is long running. While that may be a cute trick in some scenarios, it is downright frustrating in others (like trying to download a file). It isn’t just the work needed to handle the async call; it’s things like error handling and reporting problems back to the user. It requires a whole new approach to the UI from what developers (especially WinForms developers) are used to.
3: Lack of direct disk access

Windows 8 cuts off direct access to the system in quite a few ways, but the one that will hurt typical developers the most is the lack of disk access. Windows 8 follows an extreme isolation model for applications, and if your application requires access to data outside its own confined little world (including networked services you can access), you can forget about porting it to Windows 8.
4: Touch UI paradigm

Unless you have been writing a lot of mobile apps, shifting to the new UI style, which is designed for touch interaction, is going to pretty tough. It took me a long time to get a feel for what works well and what doesn’t. To make things more difficult, what looks and works well on a screen using a mouse and keyboard can be a poor experience with touch, and things that work well with touch often are a struggle to use on the screen. It’s a tricky balancing act, and as the uproar over the new UI in Windows 8 shows, even Microsoft is struggling to get it right despite having had a few years of experience with it.
...
10: The trail of dead tech
This is the one that really breaks my heart. Microsoft has a history of pushing a technology as “the next big thing” and then leaving it dying on the vine a few years later. We don’t know if Microsoft will back off its Windows 8 strategy before launch, right after launch (Kin), or a few years down the road (Zune, Silverlight). If the new Windows 8 paradigm is not a success, Microsoft may very well change course in a way that renders all your hard work on Windows 8 native applications a waste of time.

Maybe it'd be different if you had a 1080p touchscreen?
They're about $300 for 2 point touchscreens (optical)...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116464

$280 for Planar http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5716147&CatId=1449

and $500+ for true multitouch
http://www.neowin.net/news/two-new-windows-8-certified-touchscreen-monitors-from-acer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176060&name=Touchscreen-Monitors
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=S2340TSAP&s=dhs
Edited by AlphaC - 10/25/12 at 5:51pm
post #24 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138177-under-the-hood-of-windows-8-or-why-desktop-users-should-upgrade-from-windows-7/3
It's not so much the start screen, it's the way Metro Apps also maximize and all.

I highly doubt Microsoft is even aiming for corporate users to upgrade to Windows 8. Windows 8 is to test and improve the Metro interface in the consumer space before businesses upgrade to Windows 9 or 10 when Windows 7 reaches EOL.
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post #25 of 80
I'm still waiting for a tangible reason regarding the metro interfaces ability to "severely dent productivity"

In terms of productivity, It is at most an application launcher with extra features that didn't exist before (but can actually HELP productivity).

Basically everything except launching programs exists within Windows 8s desktop environment and using metro at all (except to click the desktop button) can be circumvented completely simply by pinning commonly used programs to the taskbar.
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post #26 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Did you read the full article ? The author gives plenty of cases where it's not a matter of opinion, the two environments don't mesh well together. Your are saying that one is supposed to give a new experience and the other to provide familiarity, but that has got nothing to do with function. And speaking of function, when you have the Start menu replaced with the Start screen and the new interface doesn't work as well as the old one, it's also a matter of function.

His complaints are the EXACT things I was alluding to.

When using Windows 8, you have to accept that the two environments are not SUPPOSED to blend into each other.

The two environments are there for a reason and you have to come to that realization before you can start to understand/use Windows 8.

Expecting a desktop app to magically attach itself to a metro app is not going to work, in the same way that expecting metro apps to tie into desktop apps is not going to work.

The desktop is there for your familiar Windows experience and metro is there for the newer, more "casual" experience (even though I wouldn't agree with that description).

You can utilize the new Windows 8 "modern style" features, but you need to use "modern style" apps.

That's where the importance of knowing the difference between the two environments and being able to use them side by side instead of trying to mash them into one comes in.

You must have missed the memo:
Quote:
"We're certainly sharing between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 – sharing the user interface, sharing some of those development tools, and over time we'll just get to do more and more of that," he said in an in-house video (below). "It's evolving literally into being a single platform."

The problem with making it a single platform is that you have to get it right. In my opinion Windows 8 doesn't get it right and Bill Gates implicitly admits it by saying this is just the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

I'm still waiting for a tangible reason regarding the metro interfaces ability to "severely dent productivity"

In terms of productivity, It is at most an application launcher with extra features that didn't exist before (but can actually HELP productivity).

Basically everything except launching programs exists within Windows 8s desktop environment and using metro at all (except to click the desktop button) can be circumvented completely simply by pinning commonly used programs to the taskbar.

I gave two concrete examples and I honestly can't think of one single added feature the Start screen has.
 
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post #27 of 80
Windows 8 has been great for me !! Love it
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post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

1. You must have missed the memo:
The problem with making it a single platform is that you have to get it right. In my opinion Windows 8 doesn't get it right and Bill Gates implicitly admits it by saying this is just the start.

2. I gave two concrete examples and I honestly can't think of one single added feature the Start screen has.

1. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the article regarding merging Windows 8 and Windows phone 8 (notice how desktop has nothing to do with it?) is that it will happen at the Metro level., so your point is mooted in context to what I actually said.

2. What were your examples for how metro dents productivity? I may not have seen them.
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post #29 of 80
I live the new control panel screen. I geeked out when I saw all the nice reports it provides compared to the previous one
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post #30 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

1. You must have missed the memo:
The problem with making it a single platform is that you have to get it right. In my opinion Windows 8 doesn't get it right and Bill Gates implicitly admits it by saying this is just the start.

2. I gave two concrete examples and I honestly can't think of one single added feature the Start screen has.

1. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the article regarding merging Windows 8 and Windows phone 8 (notice how desktop has nothing to do with it?) is that it will happen at the Metro level., so your point is mooted in context to what I actually said.

2. What were your examples for how metro dents productivity? I may not have seen them.


Err... I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make about nr. 1. What do you understand by merging Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 ? And if Windows 8 has a desktop why on earth do you say the desktop has nothing to do with it, esepcially since the UI once called Metro already encroaches on the desktop with the Edge UI and the charms bar and the Wireless dialog ? He talks about "sharing the user interface, sharing some of those development tools, and over time we'll just get to do more and more of that".

What do understand by sharing more and more of that ? It seems to me he is talking about sharing things between the ultra mobile platform and Windows 8, which now caters to the desktop and mobile platform. So, it all indicates more and more ultramobile sharing with Windows 8 (including the desktop, obviously) and vice-versa. That is what "merge" means.

The examples I gave are in the post I wrote over at Ars, which I quoted in post #16.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/25/12 at 6:24pm
 
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