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post #41 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

It's not redundant, as there are times when the back and up buttons do different things. For example, after you've double-clicked on a shortcut to a folder. Back takes you to where you clicked the shortcut, while up goes one level up in the directory tree. Two different places. Same thing applies when you first open an explorer window - back has nowhere to go, while up still takes you up.


Any operating system is best used with keyboard shortcuts. Learn them all and you'll be surprised how much faster you can navigate around the OS.

1. No, it is redundant, you just never learned how to fully take advantage of Windows 7's features. Your description is incomplete. If you place a shortcut to a folder in another HDD for example, clicking on it and then clicking back takes you back to the HDD where the shortcut is, but clicking on the folder that is right to the left of it on the address bar takes you one level up the directory tree.

I know what I'm saying, I tried it before I wrote it when I first tried to understand what the Up button in Windows 8 is for, it is redundant.

2. The problem is that learning a myriad of OS-specific keyboard shortcuts is not intuitive and does not necessarily give you any advantage when using another OS. Using universal shortcuts that are also efficient in the sense that you select stuff with the mouse and then use Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V and Ctrl+X with the other hand, now that is an advantage.

What I have been saying is that the mouse if obviously not for everything, but neither is the keyboard.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/26/12 at 4:23pm
 
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post #42 of 91
The point is that navigating the UI will never be as fast as keyboard shortcuts. Its an interesting topic because if you use keyboard shortcuts then the effects of the Windows 8 UI change won't really effect you.
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post #43 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

1. No, it is redundant, you just never learned how to fully take advantage of Windows 7's features. Your description is incomplete. If you place a shortcut to a folder in another HDD for example, clicking on it and then clicking back takes you back to the HDD where the shortcut is, but clicking on the folder that is right to the left of it on the address bar takes you one level up the directory tree.
I know what I'm saying, I tried it before I wrote it when I first tried to understand what the Up button in Windows 8 is for, it is redundant.

Except now you don't have to go searching for where to click, like with the Win7 bar where you had to read it every time to find where you want to go.

Sorry but I just find that having an up button is useful, and I was actually annoyed when it was taken out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

2. The problem is that learning a myriad of OS-specific keyboard shortcuts is not intuitive and does not necessarily give you any advantage when using another OS. Using universal shortcuts that are also efficient in the sense that you select stuff with the mouse and then use Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V and Ctrl+X with the other hand, now that is an advantage.
What I have been saying is that the mouse if obviously not for everything, but neither is the keyboard.

Not intuitive? They aren't meant to be intuitive, they're meant to be speedy. They're there as extra options, and if you learn how to use them to your advantage they do speed up your workflow. Even if for NOTHING else, you can at least bind them to a mouse button or macro key on your keyboard if you've got them.

I have a VERY hard time believing that those three shortcuts, cut copy and paste, are the only three that you ever use.
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post #44 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

The point is that navigating the UI will never be as fast as keyboard shortcuts. Its an interesting topic because if you use keyboard shortcuts then the effects of the Windows 8 UI change won't really effect you.

That is false, you can't make that an absolute truth.

As to your second sentence, it won't affect people except for the fact that many Windows 8 keyboard shortcuts are entirely new and don't apply to any other OS, not even previous versions of Windows, so having to learn them is not cost-effective.

Honestly, why would someone have to memorize all these commands in a time of GUIs ?

 
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post #45 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

1. No, it is redundant, you just never learned how to fully take advantage of Windows 7's features. Your description is incomplete. If you place a shortcut to a folder in another HDD for example, clicking on it and then clicking back takes you back to the HDD where the shortcut is, but clicking on the folder that is right to the left of it on the address bar takes you one level up the directory tree.
I know what I'm saying, I tried it before I wrote it when I first tried to understand what the Up button in Windows 8 is for, it is redundant.

Except now you don't have to go searching for where to click, like with the Win7 bar where you had to read it every time to find where you want to go.

Sorry but I just find that having an up button is useful, and I was actually annoyed when it was taken out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

2. The problem is that learning a myriad of OS-specific keyboard shortcuts is not intuitive and does not necessarily give you any advantage when using another OS. Using universal shortcuts that are also efficient in the sense that you select stuff with the mouse and then use Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V and Ctrl+X with the other hand, now that is an advantage.
What I have been saying is that the mouse if obviously not for everything, but neither is the keyboard.

Not intuitive? They aren't meant to be intuitive, they're meant to be speedy. They're there as extra options, and if you learn how to use them to your advantage they do speed up your workflow. Even if for NOTHING else, you can at least bind them to a mouse button or macro key on your keyboard if you've got them.

I have a VERY hard time believing that those three shortcuts, cut copy and paste, are the only three that you ever use.

Searching for where to click ? Lol, what kind of searching do you have to do ? The address bar is right in front of you. If you want to go to a different place than the one the back button takes you to, then it is because you perhaps know where you want to go. And it's right there, the folder name that is one level up in the directory structure is even written, it's not hidden behind an "Up" button. Please, don't make excuses, you don't have to search for anything.

As to keyboard shortcuts being speedy, that presumes that you learned them first, and the big trade-off with Windows 8 is that not only you have to learn a lot more, you actually have to learn them in order to be faster with the crap UI they implemented which is worse to use with a mouse than the previous version. The problem here is also the lack of a good alternative, which Windows 7 has.

I never said anything about only using those three keyboard shortcuts, they are just examples where it makes sense. Just for reference this is what I said in a thread a while ago (there are more, of course):
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Let's see people already should know a good deal of keyboard shortcuts like:

Ctrl + C
Ctrl + X
Ctrl + V
Ctrl + Z
Ctrl + Y

Ctrl + B
Ctrl + I
Ctrl + U

Ctrl + F

Ctrl + P

Ctrl + R
Ctrl + T (open new tab in web browser)

Ctrl + Alt + Del

Ctrl + Shift + Esc


So, what people who like Metro are defending is that people should learn even more keyboard shortcuts, making using Windows more like using a flight simulator, when ironically the once called Metro UI is designed for touch which is very similar in ease of use to the mouse when it comes to requiring the least amount of complication to interact with the OS.

Ironically, Microsoft seems to not know what it is doing in that regard, if on the one hand they apparently require you to learn more keyboard shortcuts to be proficient with the once called Metro UI, on the other hand they have put basic keyboard shortcuts like copy / paste / cut as the first buttons on the file explorer ribbon. How is this coherent ?

Edited by tpi2007 - 10/26/12 at 5:09pm
 
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post #46 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Honestly, why would someone have to memorize all these commands in a time of GUIs ?
A power user.
post #47 of 91
Noone's asking you to learn the shortcuts. If you don't want to learn them, that's your prerogative. They're not in your way taking up space on your precious explorer toolbar. You can go ahead and pretend they didn't exist if that would make you happier, and it wouldn't change a thing.
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post #48 of 91
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Exactly! And with SSDs being so affordable now, a 60 or 64 GB SSD acting as a boot drive is arguably a better investment than Windows 8.

Show me a $15 SSD.

What gets me is people acting like Windows 8 is some alien planet where everything is different. Spend $5 for Start8, and the UI is practically the same. All the positives without any negatives.

Are we really complaining about $5 here?
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post #49 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Show me a $15 SSD.
What gets me is people acting like Windows 8 is some alien planet where everything is different. Spend $5 for Start8, and the UI is practically the same. All the positives without any negatives.
Are we really complaining about $5 here?

Even if we ignore Metro, there are several back-end changes that actually make Windows 8 a huge pain in the ass to manage, and a few more that just get in the way of a power user. There are many other threads and posts about them if you care to search.
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post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

The point is that navigating the UI will never be as fast as keyboard shortcuts. Its an interesting topic because if you use keyboard shortcuts then the effects of the Windows 8 UI change won't really effect you.

Which is why I guess MS didn't think it would bother "power users" as they'd assume that power users would be the macro/hotkey/WIN key inclined. I mean hell I hardly use GUI navigation to get around any OS I'm in because it's just not as fast. The only thing a GUI should be is look pretty and offer visual tasking improvements.

To be honest WIN8 seem like MS really tried to keep everything in one OS and try to please everyone which everyone knows will always end up upsetting everyone but they eventually get over it when they realize things aren't as bad as they think. Still, I'm thinking Win7 will be my last personal use windows as I just haven't found any reason for windows as I don't game that much anymore and my work can be done faster and safer in Linux.

PS: Forgot to add that I'd say Win7 and even 8 are the best I've seen from MS.
     
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