Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Windows › [The Reg] N00bs vs Windows 8: We lock six people in a room with new OS
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[The Reg] N00bs vs Windows 8: We lock six people in a room with new OS - Page 6

post #51 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Even if we ignore Metro, there are several back-end changes that actually make Windows 8 a huge pain in the ass to manage, and a few more that just get in the way of a power user. There are many other threads and posts about them if you care to search.

Care to list a couple in a sentence? I know about the hostfile deal.
Bueller
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K 4.7Ghz @ 1.36v Asus Sabertooth Z77 Gigabyte Windforce 780 Ti 3GB 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 9-10-9-27 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
256GB Samsung 840 Pro + RAID1 2TB 7200 Hitachis LG 6X Blu-ray Burner Corsair H100i Windows 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VG236HE XArmor U9BL-S Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries 5L O2DAC -> Corsair SP2500 (or O2 amp and Beyerdyn... 
  hide details  
Reply
Bueller
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K 4.7Ghz @ 1.36v Asus Sabertooth Z77 Gigabyte Windforce 780 Ti 3GB 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 9-10-9-27 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
256GB Samsung 840 Pro + RAID1 2TB 7200 Hitachis LG 6X Blu-ray Burner Corsair H100i Windows 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VG236HE XArmor U9BL-S Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries 5L O2DAC -> Corsair SP2500 (or O2 amp and Beyerdyn... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #52 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Honestly, why would someone have to memorize all these commands in a time of GUIs ?

Why not? What does being a GUI have to do with your choice of input device? Do you create documents with an onscreen keyboard? Do you copy and paste from the context menu? Do I need to add another question just to make a nice round count of 5?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #53 of 91
You guys just love to argue for the sake of arguing without actually adressing the points, don't you ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Noone's asking you to learn the shortcuts. If you don't want to learn them, that's your prerogative. They're not in your way taking up space on your precious explorer toolbar. You can go ahead and pretend they didn't exist if that would make you happier, and it wouldn't change a thing.

Fine, except you didn't address my point:
Quote:
As to keyboard shortcuts being speedy, that presumes that you learned them first, and the big trade-off with Windows 8 is that not only you have to learn a lot more, you actually have to learn them in order to be faster with the crap UI they implemented which is worse to use with a mouse than the previous version. The problem here is also the lack of a good alternative, which Windows 7 has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Exactly! And with SSDs being so affordable now, a 60 or 64 GB SSD acting as a boot drive is arguably a better investment than Windows 8.

Show me a $15 SSD.

What gets me is people acting like Windows 8 is some alien planet where everything is different. Spend $5 for Start8, and the UI is practically the same. All the positives without any negatives.

Are we really complaining about $5 here?

I already addressed that, $15 is just for people who bought a PC with Windows 7 in the last months, for everyone else it's $39.99. If you're going to spend $39.99 on an OS upgrade you might want to consider an SSD upgrade for $49.99 or $54.99, which is arguably a much better speed improvement than Windows 8. And yes, I provided links for those two examples in a previous post. And prices are coming down even more. Intel's new 21nm 335 series has already been spotted in Japan, new models are coming out, Samsung just released the 840 series, etc, bringing prices down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Honestly, why would someone have to memorize all these commands in a time of GUIs ?

Why not? What does being a GUI have to do with your choice of input device? Do you create documents with an onscreen keyboard? Do you copy and paste from the context menu? Do I need to add another question just to make a nice round count of 5?

No, you just need to read the answer I gave Manyak in this post.

Edit: as to using using copy and paste from the context menu, we agree, and that is why you should also read posts #36 and #45 to understand what I'm saying.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/26/12 at 7:18pm
 
Metro 2033 review
Metro 2033
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-3820 Asus Sabertooth X79 MSI GTX 750 Ti TF Gaming 16 GB Corsair DDR3 1866 Mhz Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD 830 128GB + WD Caviar Black 1TB Sony Optiarc DVD-RW Corsair A70 + Noiseblocker M12-P Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ RL2455HM Cooler Master Octane Corsair AX750 Professional Modular 80 Plus Gold Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus 
Mouse
Cooler Master Octane 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Metro 2033 review
Metro 2033
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-3820 Asus Sabertooth X79 MSI GTX 750 Ti TF Gaming 16 GB Corsair DDR3 1866 Mhz Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD 830 128GB + WD Caviar Black 1TB Sony Optiarc DVD-RW Corsair A70 + Noiseblocker M12-P Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ RL2455HM Cooler Master Octane Corsair AX750 Professional Modular 80 Plus Gold Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus 
Mouse
Cooler Master Octane 
  hide details  
Reply
post #54 of 91
i dont care what yall say. im getting windows 8
post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Care to list a couple in a sentence? I know about the hostfile deal.

You can't disable UAC completely via control panel, and if you do disable it fully you lose some metro functionality. Also you can't add shortcuts to .bat files (among other more 'advanced' stuff) to the start panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Fine, except you didn't address my point:

Yes I did. And like I said, you can go ahead and pretend the keyboard shortcuts don't exist if you think they're too much of a pain in the ass to learn. Yes the UI is crap, but that doesn't make keyboard shortcuts a "patch" to cover it up. Yes it's faster to navigate Windows 8 with shortcuts, because it's faster to navigate ANY OS with shortcuts. Even in Windows 7 I have many more shortcuts and macros programmed via Autohotkey. There's no such thing as too many.

And hell, if you think Windows 8 has too many you should take a look at OS X's list. And that's supposed to be the 'easier' OS.
Server
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-3470 ASRock Z77 Extreme6 16 GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1600 1TB WD Caviar Black 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
4TB WD Caviar Red Cooler Master Hyper 212+ VMWare ESXi NZXT Crafted Series Tempest 410 
OtherOtherOther
LSI 9280-16i4e RAID Card Intel I350 Quad Port Gigabit NIC Intel Pro/1000 PT Dual Port Gigabit NIC 
  hide details  
Reply
Server
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-3470 ASRock Z77 Extreme6 16 GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1600 1TB WD Caviar Black 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
4TB WD Caviar Red Cooler Master Hyper 212+ VMWare ESXi NZXT Crafted Series Tempest 410 
OtherOtherOther
LSI 9280-16i4e RAID Card Intel I350 Quad Port Gigabit NIC Intel Pro/1000 PT Dual Port Gigabit NIC 
  hide details  
Reply
post #56 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Care to list a couple in a sentence? I know about the hostfile deal.

You can't disable UAC completely via control panel, and if you do disable it fully you lose some metro functionality. Also you can't add shortcuts to .bat files (among other more 'advanced' stuff) to the start panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Fine, except you didn't address my point:

Yes I did. And like I said, you can go ahead and pretend the keyboard shortcuts don't exist if you think they're too much of a pain in the ass to learn. Yes the UI is crap, but that doesn't make keyboard shortcuts a "patch" to cover it up. Yes it's faster to navigate Windows 8 with shortcuts, because it's faster to navigate ANY OS with shortcuts. Even in Windows 7 I have many more shortcuts and macros programmed via Autohotkey. There's no such thing as too many.

And hell, if you think Windows 8 has too many you should take a look at OS X's list. And that's supposed to be the 'easier' OS.

No, you didn't. I'm raising the issue that Windows 8 UI is crap to use with a mouse and you agree, and I have already quoted myself from a previous thread where I list a lot of useful shortcuts, so we agree that using keyboard shortcuts can indeed be very useful and make using the OS faster.

What you seem to ignore is the fact that for a lot of people there is a point of diminishing returns in having to learn an excessive number of keyboard shortcuts (with the aggravant that in this case they are specific to Windows 8 and not universal like 12 of the keyboard shortcuts that I listed) to accomplish things which could arguably have been just as fast to do with a mouse. Taking away choice when Windows 7 worked just as well with keyboard shortcuts for those who wanted or mouse for those who wanted is not a good thing.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/26/12 at 7:30pm
 
Metro 2033 review
Metro 2033
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-3820 Asus Sabertooth X79 MSI GTX 750 Ti TF Gaming 16 GB Corsair DDR3 1866 Mhz Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD 830 128GB + WD Caviar Black 1TB Sony Optiarc DVD-RW Corsair A70 + Noiseblocker M12-P Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ RL2455HM Cooler Master Octane Corsair AX750 Professional Modular 80 Plus Gold Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus 
Mouse
Cooler Master Octane 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Metro 2033 review
Metro 2033
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-3820 Asus Sabertooth X79 MSI GTX 750 Ti TF Gaming 16 GB Corsair DDR3 1866 Mhz Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD 830 128GB + WD Caviar Black 1TB Sony Optiarc DVD-RW Corsair A70 + Noiseblocker M12-P Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ RL2455HM Cooler Master Octane Corsair AX750 Professional Modular 80 Plus Gold Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus 
Mouse
Cooler Master Octane 
  hide details  
Reply
post #57 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You guys just love to argue for the sake of arguing without actually adressing the points, don't you ?
Fine, except you didn't address my point:
I already addressed that, $15 is just for people who bought a PC with Windows 7 in the last months, for everyone else it's $39.99. If you're going to spend $39.99 on an OS upgrade you might want to consider an SSD upgrade for $49.99 or $54.99, which is arguably a much better speed improvement than Windows 8. And yes, I provided links for those two examples in a previous post. And prices are coming down even more. Intel's new 21nm 335 series has already been spotted in Japan, new models are coming out, Samsung just released the 840 series, etc, bringing prices down.
No, you just need to read the answer I gave Manyak in this post.
Edit: as to using using copy and paste from the context menu, we agree, and that is why you should also read posts #36 and #45 to understand what I'm saying.

No it's not. I got two copies for $15 each and I haven't bought a computer since I bought my laptop over 2 years ago. And if you're going to by an SSD, why would you cheap out and get one for $40-60, get one for $100 that's at least 128gb. So in this case his point is completely valid.
 
HTPC/Media Server
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4770K @ 4.3GHz ASUS Maximus VI GENE Galaxy Geforce GTX 780 Hall of Fame 1188/1652(6... G.Skill Ripjaws X series 16gb ddr3 2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Neutron 256gb SSD Seagate Barracude 3tb Seagate Barracuda 3tb LG 12x Blu-Ray Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H100i Windows 8 Pro 64-bit Crossover Black Tune 2735 AMG 27 inch 2560x1440... LG 22EA53 21.5in 1080p IPS panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung Syncmaster 216BW 21.6inch 1680x1050 LCD... Ducky DK 1008-C OCN Edition w/MX Blue Switches Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000w Corsair Vengeance C70 Arctic White 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G600 Razer Vespula Logitech X-140 2.0 Speakers Logitech G930 Wireless 7.1 Surround Headset 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53Ghz Geforce GTX 260M 1GB 6GB DDR2 500gb and 160gb 
OSMonitor
Windows 8 Pro 64bit 17.3" 16:9 1600x900 
  hide details  
Reply
 
HTPC/Media Server
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4770K @ 4.3GHz ASUS Maximus VI GENE Galaxy Geforce GTX 780 Hall of Fame 1188/1652(6... G.Skill Ripjaws X series 16gb ddr3 2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Neutron 256gb SSD Seagate Barracude 3tb Seagate Barracuda 3tb LG 12x Blu-Ray Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H100i Windows 8 Pro 64-bit Crossover Black Tune 2735 AMG 27 inch 2560x1440... LG 22EA53 21.5in 1080p IPS panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung Syncmaster 216BW 21.6inch 1680x1050 LCD... Ducky DK 1008-C OCN Edition w/MX Blue Switches Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000w Corsair Vengeance C70 Arctic White 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G600 Razer Vespula Logitech X-140 2.0 Speakers Logitech G930 Wireless 7.1 Surround Headset 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53Ghz Geforce GTX 260M 1GB 6GB DDR2 500gb and 160gb 
OSMonitor
Windows 8 Pro 64bit 17.3" 16:9 1600x900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #58 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

No, you didn't. I'm raising the issue that Windows 8 UI is crap to use with a mouse and you agree, and I have already quoted myself from a previous thread where I list a lot of useful shortcuts, so we agree that usiing keyboard shortcuts can indeed be very useful and make using the OS faster.
What you seem to ignore is the fact that for a lot of people there is a point of diminishing returns in having to learn an excessive number of keyboard shortcuts (with the aggravant that in this case they are specific to Windows 8 and not universal like 12 of the keyboard shortcuts that I listed) to accomplish things which could arguably have been just as fast to do with a mouse. Taking away choice when Windows 7 worked just as well with keyboard shortcuts for those who wanted or mouse for those who wanted is not a good thing.

I completely agree that the UI is crap, and that navigating with the mouse was faster before. And it gets even slower as your screen gets larger, and is a complete failure for multiple monitor setups. And I also agree that they should have left the old UI functionality in, even if it needed a registry "hack" to enable it.

However this is completely unrelated to having windows-specific keyboard shortcuts. Every OS has specific shortcuts and commands that only they use. Complaining about having too many specific shortcuts is like complaining that there are too many specific command line apps in Linux. Memorize the ones you want, forget about the ones you don't, and that's it. The fact that you're "forced" to use these commands to navigate Windows 8 with any sort of speed isn't what's screwing you. It's the horrible GUI, plain and simple.
Server
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-3470 ASRock Z77 Extreme6 16 GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1600 1TB WD Caviar Black 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
4TB WD Caviar Red Cooler Master Hyper 212+ VMWare ESXi NZXT Crafted Series Tempest 410 
OtherOtherOther
LSI 9280-16i4e RAID Card Intel I350 Quad Port Gigabit NIC Intel Pro/1000 PT Dual Port Gigabit NIC 
  hide details  
Reply
Server
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-3470 ASRock Z77 Extreme6 16 GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1600 1TB WD Caviar Black 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
4TB WD Caviar Red Cooler Master Hyper 212+ VMWare ESXi NZXT Crafted Series Tempest 410 
OtherOtherOther
LSI 9280-16i4e RAID Card Intel I350 Quad Port Gigabit NIC Intel Pro/1000 PT Dual Port Gigabit NIC 
  hide details  
Reply
post #59 of 91
men i was having trouble navigating through metro, i think i going to uninstalled window 8 frown.gif
My System
(1 item)
 
  
CPU
asus laptop 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(1 item)
 
  
CPU
asus laptop 
  hide details  
Reply
post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmario View Post

men i was having trouble navigating through metro, i think i going to uninstalled window 8 frown.gif

Just get Start8. You pretty much don't have to deal with Metro then.
Bueller
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K 4.7Ghz @ 1.36v Asus Sabertooth Z77 Gigabyte Windforce 780 Ti 3GB 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 9-10-9-27 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
256GB Samsung 840 Pro + RAID1 2TB 7200 Hitachis LG 6X Blu-ray Burner Corsair H100i Windows 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VG236HE XArmor U9BL-S Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries 5L O2DAC -> Corsair SP2500 (or O2 amp and Beyerdyn... 
  hide details  
Reply
Bueller
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K 4.7Ghz @ 1.36v Asus Sabertooth Z77 Gigabyte Windforce 780 Ti 3GB 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 9-10-9-27 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
256GB Samsung 840 Pro + RAID1 2TB 7200 Hitachis LG 6X Blu-ray Burner Corsair H100i Windows 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VG236HE XArmor U9BL-S Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries 5L O2DAC -> Corsair SP2500 (or O2 amp and Beyerdyn... 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Windows
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Windows › [The Reg] N00bs vs Windows 8: We lock six people in a room with new OS