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[TR] Samsung posts record profits as Galaxy sales crush Apple - Page 7

post #61 of 119
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Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I don't consider having too much thermal paste "poor build quality". When I talk about build quality I think of the chassis and display and how well they are put together. No creaks, cracking, flexing, chipping, all buttons and ports work well, etc.
The heat comes from having a thin laptop with powerful hardware. The MacBook Pro is no exception to that, though there are some which do manage heat a bit better.
So? It still has great build quality. And I don't see why a self built system would have better build quality than an iMac.
They aren't doing either. They make a lot of profit because they only make one new smartphone per year.

Yes, too much thermal paste is "poor build quality." Having too much thermal paste on a CPU or GPU actually deteriorates the CPU/GPU and makes it less efficient at dissipating heat, giving rise to heat problems which in turn gives rise to battery problems. Another thing is that you contradict yourself when you say that the laptop gets hot due to its thin size, an engineer would call this a "design flaw" and definitely shows the lack of good build quality in the MBP when compared with Thinkpad (ie my Thinkpad does not expel any hot air whatsoever).. Furthermore, changing the definition of build quality doesn't mean the Macbook Pro has good build quality, for example my piece of crap HP laptop from 6 years also has no chips or cracks, the buttons and ports work, etc but does that mean it has good build quality? No, its a terrible laptop! You are considering only a small portion of the concept that comprises "build quality." But working with you're definition of build quality, I must tell you that the Macbook Pro doesn't fare well either. Take my Thinkpad for example, the carbon fiber (actually its a very heat resistant plastic enforced by carbon fiber, which is intrinsically more rugged than aluminum unibody) chassis can take anything you throw at it. It is virtually impossible to crack, chip, or scratch the body. The keyboard is spill resistant. The screen is very firmly secured to the base of the laptop with two big heavy metal hinges, much more secure than a flimsy MBP. Also note that the MBP display is covered with glass, increasing the probability of a cracked screen when the MBP is dropped, which again shows your own definition of build quality is working against you. With all this in mind and by your definition of build quality, it is still true that you are sacrificing build quality for aesthetics. Moreover, your limited definition doesn't take into account more important aspects of build quality. The Thinkpad is designed to be as rugged as possible. Lots of hours went into making it efficient at dissipating heat and it shows, considering the laptop never gets hot. It also makes very efficient use of the battery, when I first got it, the battery could last 12 hours. You need to realize that just because a product "looks" or "sounds" like it has good build quality, doesn't mean the product has good build quality. Considering all this, I hope you can see the reason why Macbooks are used by arts students and why Thinkpads are sent into space!

I'm not familiar with iMac but I can safely say that anyone with an interest in computers can do 10x a better job of putting together a computer with build quality in mind than can any factory. Take further note that when you build your own computer, you have almost endless options for motherboards, GPU, CPU, power supply..etc, whereas for any given iMac all the parts will be Foxxcon garbage imported from China. Take a look at some of the systems we have on display here at OCN, they are all without a doubt better than the build quality of iMac. Some are air cooled with the best coolers on the market and some are water cooled with liquid nitrogen! We find every which way we can improve the efficiency of our computers and it shows. There can be no doubt in anyone's mind that a well built custom built computer will outperform and outclass any given pre-built, be it a Windows system or Apple. Being on a Overclocking forum, you should know this.
Edited by karlok - 10/27/12 at 11:58pm
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post #62 of 119
Honestly competition will make both android and iOS better. The consumer wins no matter what.
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post #63 of 119
As to the whole "Ford vs. Ferrari" argument, Ford made a car called the Ford GT a few years ago, and many years before that, they made a car called the GT 40. Both of which were priced lower than similar Ferrari's and ran circles around their Ferrari competitors. Jeremy Clarkson certainly liked his Ford GT. rolleyes.gif

Don't forget about the QC issues with the current iPhone 5 either, or the fact that Apple just released a slew of new products to help fill the "gaps" in their market share. It sounds like Apple is attempting to become a company that wants to be a jack-of-all-trades tech company, very similar to that of Samsung. Samsung has seen much success with their current approach. Then again, so has Apple.

Maybe each company should stick to doing what they do best. That is to say that Samsung should continue to make stellar technology, and Apple should continue to sue Samsung for making stellar technology that is stealing Apple's market share. thumb.gif
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post #64 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWolf575 View Post

Okay people like you honestly just annoy me. Did you even read the title or article before you come in here and post pointless things just to make your self seem smart? Considering that your comparing old galaxy to new ones, in that regard of $99, then i can do the same for the iPhone 3, which you can get for around 110$ here PAYG. So...yeah..your argument is absolutely pointless.

He is not necessarily talking about old phones. Samsung has plenty of budget phones that are sold new in the PAYG section at popular retailers, and they have smart phones that you can get free with a contract as well, sitting on shelves and advertised at retail sites. It's a market that Samsung actively participates in and Apple does not.
post #65 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlok View Post

Yes, too much thermal paste is "poor build quality." Having too much thermal paste on a CPU or GPU actually deteriorates the CPU/GPU and makes it less efficient at dissipating heat, giving rise to heat problems which in turn gives rise to battery problems.
I disagree. It's certainly not a good thing, but I'd not consider a laptop to be of poor build quality because it has too much thermal paste. Also having a couple of MacBook Pros which have an excessive amount of thermal paste isn't indicative of the other twenty million they sold that year.
Quote:
Another thing is that you contradict yourself when you say that the laptop gets hot due to its thin size, an engineer would call this a "design flaw" and definitely shows the lack of good build quality in the MBP when compared with Thinkpad (ie my Thinkpad does not expel any hot air whatsoever)..
I did not contradict myself. I said that any thin laptop with powerful hardware (in fact, any laptop period) will get hot and that's true. And what Thinkpad do you have? If it doesn't have similar hardware to the MacBook Pro then your point is moot.
Quote:
Furthermore, changing the definition of build quality doesn't mean the Macbook Pro has good build quality, for example my piece of crap HP laptop from 6 years also has no chips or cracks, the buttons and ports work, etc but does that mean it has good build quality? No, its a terrible laptop! You are considering only a small portion of the concept that comprises "build quality." But working with you're definition of build quality, I must tell you that the Macbook Pro doesn't fare well either.
I am not "changing the definition of build quality". I only said that it's the chassis that I think of when someone mentions build quality. What's terrible about the build quality of your HP laptop? And again it is not my "definition" of build quality.
Quote:
Take my Thinkpad for example, the carbon fiber (actually its a very heat resistant plastic enforced by carbon fiber, which is intrinsically more rugged than aluminum unibody) chassis can take anything you throw at it. It is virtually impossible to crack, chip, or scratch the body. The keyboard is spill resistant. The screen is very firmly secured to the base of the laptop with two big heavy metal hinges, much more secure than a flimsy MBP. Even with your definition of build quality, it is still true that you are sacrificing build quality for aesthetics. Moreover, your limited definition doesn't take into account more important aspects of build quality. The Thinkpad is designed to be as rugged as possible. Lots of hours went into making it efficient at dissipating heat and it shows, considering the laptop never gets hot. It also makes very efficient use of the battery, when I first got it, the battery could last 12 hours. You need to realize that just because a product "looks" or "sounds" like it has good build quality, doesn't mean the product has good build quality. Considering all this, I hope you can see the reason why Macbooks are used by arts students and why Thinkpads are sent into space!
It is not my "definition" of build quality, it's just what I mainly think of when the topic discussed. Wait... "flimsy MBP"? What? They are anything but flimsy.

When did I ever say I think a product has good build quality because it looks or sounds like it? I didn't and I don't believe that. I've owned several MacBook Pros and the build quality of them speaks for itself.

I may be sacrificing durability for the MacBook Pro (at least in comparison to the Thinkpad), but not build quality.
Quote:
I'm not familiar with iMac but I can safely say that anyone with an interest in computers can do 10x a better job of putting together a computer with build quality in mind than can any factory
No you can't safely say that.
Quote:
Take further note that when you build your own computer, you have almost endless options for motherboards, GPU, CPU, power supply..etc, whereas for any given iMac all the parts will be Foxxcon garbage imported from China.
That's a baseless statement. Is the GTX 680MX "Foxconn garbage" too?
Quote:
Take a look at some of the systems we have on display here at OCN, they are all without a doubt better than the build quality of iMac. Some are air cooled with the best coolers on the market and some are water cooled with liquid nitrogen! We find every which way we can improve the efficiency of our computers and it shows. There can be no doubt in anyone's mind that a well built custom built computer will outperform and outclass any given pre-built, be it a Windows system or Apple.
What makes them better? A lot of what you're saying is unsubstantiated.

It's pretty clear we're not going to agree. We should probably just drop this and agree to disagree.
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post #66 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I disagree. It's certainly not a good thing, but I'd not consider a laptop to be of poor build quality because it has too much thermal paste. Also having a couple of MacBook Pros which have an excessive amount of thermal paste isn't indicative of the other twenty million they sold that year.

Good point, but I've never once heard of such a problem with Thinkpads leading me to believe the manufacturing process for Thinkpad is more robust.
Quote:
I did not contradict myself. I said that any thin laptop with powerful hardware (in fact, any laptop period) will get hot and that's true. And what Thinkpad do you have? If it doesn't have similar hardware to the MacBook Pro then your point is moot.

T520 with specs very similar to MBPs at the time. While your statement may be true that a thin laptop with powerful hardware will be hotter compared to a thicker laptop with similar specs, my question to you is why make a laptop thinner if it degrades performance? The only possible reason is that a thinner laptop is more aesthetically pleasing, so this one point goes to show that you ARE sacrificing build quality for design and that you are indeed contradicting yourself.
Quote:
I am not "changing the definition of build quality". I only said that it's the chassis that I think of when someone mentions build quality. What's terrible about the build quality of your HP laptop? And again it is not my "definition" of build quality.

Yes you are, you are only considering things that show good build quality which you consider important (you said it yourself in the quote below), but build quality comprises much more than that. Well, the components inside the HP laptop quickly degraded due to design flaws in the structure and position of the components inside the laptop itself. I would not consider this good build quality but by your line of thinking since the there are no chips, scratches, etc it is good build quality. Expanding on this, an MBP is not designed with efficiency and durability in mind. It is designed to be aesthetically pleasing. This translates into problems regarding the structure of the components within the MBP. For example, the heat sink on an MBP is smaller than the one in my Thinkpad, and so the MBP CPU will degrade faster than mine as it will get hotter and stay hotter for longer. If this is not a design flaw and and indicator of shoddy build quality, then I don't know what is.
Quote:
It is not my "definition" of build quality, it's just what I mainly think of when the topic discussed. Wait... "flimsy MBP"? What? They are anything but flimsy.

Again, it may not be flimsy if you can only compare it to **** tier laptops like HPs. Compare a Thinkpad with an MBP in real life and you will find that in comparison the MBP really is flimsy. Go try it, a Thinkpad just feels more rugged than an MBP.
Quote:
When did I ever say I think a product has good build quality because it looks or sounds like it? I didn't and I don't believe that. I've owned several MacBook Pros and the build quality of them speaks for itself.
I may be sacrificing durability for the MacBook Pro (at least in comparison to the Thinkpad), but not build quality.

You are thinking relatively about build quality, where your MBP has better build quality than other laptops with similar dimensions. Think about it an absolute terms. A laptop with good build quality takes into consideration not any aesthetics but the engineering of the whole laptop. Which is overall better, a nutritious meal which looks (literally) like garbage or a dressed up meal that looks nice but has no nutritional value? Sure the dressed up meal may be better than other similar meals, but the fact of the matter is that the garbage meal set a standard for nutritional value and the other meals meals are poor in overall quality compared to the garbage meal.
Quote:
No you can't safely say that.

Yes I can, there is no doubt in my mind that a custom built computer will last longer than a pre-built. Anyone on this board will agree with me.
Quote:
That's a baseless statement. Is the GTX 680MX "Foxconn garbage" too?

The idea is that with a custom built computer, you have choice in the manufacture of your components and a very large choice at that. I can choose the highest quality parts when I make my own computer. whereas I only have one choice in manufacturer when I go with iMac and that is Foxxcon. Foxxcon is known in that its parts are not high quality. So with that in mind, which has better build quality, the costum built computer with the highest quality parts available or the iMac with the low-grade components? Another thing I want you to think about is the deep consideration that is put into custom built computers. Which fans go where? What case will provide the best airflow? Questions like these are what separate custom built computers from pre-built. Do you think Apple puts this much consideration into the iMacs? An analogy, is the custom built dining table that was worked on for over 100 hours, by hand, better or worse than a similar factory produced table? If you want to be consistent, your answer should be the latter.
Quote:
What makes them better? A lot of what you're saying is unsubstantiated.

See above.


Also, let me add that I am defining build quality to the OVERALL quality of the entire laptop, and since aesthetics are subjective it is not included. Also let me add that I see nothing wrong with sacrificing build quality for aesthetics or a smaller weight (At 2.6kg, I definitely hate to carry around my Thinkpad sometimes), but the fact of the matter is that a Thinkpad sets the standard for quality because it is engineered to be robust, efficient, power-friendly, durable, and quality machine while taking little consideration of the aesthetics of the laptop, and of course does the best job at it.
Edited by karlok - 10/28/12 at 1:15am
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post #67 of 119
I am not a big fan of Apple. Their attitude towards the consumer does tend to grate me the wrong way. I have a Samsung Galaxy S1 Captivate.Still. Pretty much the start of the Galaxy line for the most part. My wife had an iPhone 3GS. While I love my phone, hers was more efficient in doing the same things I was trying to do. I'm not saying that Apple puts out a inferior or subpar product because they don't. But the amount they charge for their products is ridiculous. Not everyone want or can pay the price they ask for things. By having several different models at different price points in a smartphone line all that does is make your product more accesible to the public. Something that I think Apple needs to pay heed to IMO.

And they also need to upgrade their line of product for building your own computer and the prices need to come down. Behold the insanity!

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD770LL/A?
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post #68 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlok View Post

Good point, but I've never once heard of such a problem with Thinkpads leading me to believe the manufacturing process for Thinkpad is more robust.
You may not have heard of it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I did a quick Google search and found this: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/x100e-excess-heat-culprit-found/td-p/730823
Quote:
T520 with specs very similar to MBPs at the time. While your statement may be true that a thin laptop with powerful hardware will be hotter compared to a thicker laptop with similar specs, my question to you is why make a laptop thinner if it degrades performance? The only possible reason is that a thinner laptop is more aesthetically pleasing, so this one point goes to show that you ARE sacrificing build quality for design and that you are indeed contradicting yourself.
This T520?

It doesn't degrade performance but it does result in a hotter chassis -- I suppose that one is in favour of aesthetics or a more comfortable size. And no I'm still not contradicting myself.
Quote:
Yes you are, you are only considering things that show good build quality which you consider important (you said it yourself in the quote below), but build quality comprises much more than that. Well, the components inside the HP laptop quickly degraded due to design flaws in the structure and position of the components inside the laptop itself. I would not consider this good build quality but by your line of thinking since the there are no chips, scratches, etc it is good build quality. Expanding on this, an MBP is not designed with efficiency and durability in mind. It is designed to be aesthetically pleasing. This translates into problems regarding the structure of the components within the MBP. For example, the heat sink on an MBP is smaller than the one in my Thinkpad, and so the MBP CPU will degrade faster than mine as it will get hotter and stay hotter for longer. If this is not a design flaw and and indicator of shoddy build quality, then I don't know what is.
No I am not. What I said below in my quote is that when someone brings up build quality that the thing that comes to my mind is the design of the chassis and such, I never stated that's what it means. No that isn't my line of thinking: that would qualify as poor build quality. No it's not a design flaw or an indication of poor build quality. The temperature is well within thermal spec so it'll be fine.
Quote:
Again, it may not be flimsy if you can only compare it to **** tier laptops like HPs. Compare a Thinkpad with an MBP in real life and you will find that in comparison the MBP really is flimsy. Go try it, a Thinkpad just feels more rugged than an MBP.
I'm not comparing it to anything. The laptop isn't flimsy. That isn't going to change no matter what you compare it to. I expect the Thinkpad would be more rugged, that's how they're designed. But I imagine it would also be thicker and heavier too.
Quote:
You are thinking relatively about build quality, where your MBP has better build quality than other laptops with similar dimensions. Think about it an absolute terms. A laptop with good build quality takes into consideration not any aesthetics but the engineering of the whole laptop. Which is overall better, a nutritious meal which looks (literally) like garbage or a dressed up meal that looks nice but has no nutritional value? Sure the dressed up meal may be better than other similar meals, but the fact of the matter is that the garbage meal set a standard for nutritional value and the other meals meals are poor in overall quality compared to the garbage meal.
Aesthetics (thinness, lightness, feel of the materials, etc.) is a part of build quality. If you're talking about ruggedness or durability exclusively then aesthetics have little to do with it.
Quote:
Yes I can, there is no doubt in my mind that a custom built computer will last longer than a pre-built. Anyone on this board will agree with me.
Longer than the cheap pre-built from HP or Dell yeah, because it uses terrible parts and generally has a really shocking chassis. But an iMac has a good chassis, is well designed, and Macs in general last a very long time.
Quote:
The idea is that with a custom built computer, you have choice in the manufacture of your components and a very large choice at that. I can choose the highest quality parts when I make my own computer. whereas I only have one choice in manufacturer when I go with iMac and that is Foxxcon. Foxxcon is known in that its parts are not high quality. So with that in mind, which has better build quality, the costum built computer with the highest quality parts available or the iMac with the low-grade components? Another thing I want you to think about is the deep consideration that is put into custom built computers. Which fans go where? What case will provide the best airflow? Questions like these are what separate custom built computers from pre-built. Do you think Apple puts this much consideration into the iMacs? An analogy, is the custom built dining table that was worked on for over 100 hours, by hand, better or worse than a similar factory produced table? If you want to be consistent, your answer should be the latter.

See above.
The iMac is manufactured at Foxconn, that doesn't mean it uses parts made by Foxconn. I am being consistent and the former would be better. Apple has a team of engineers that deals with those questions and builds the system appropriately. You don't have the choice you do with a custom computer but that doesn't mean the build quality is less.
Quote:
Also, let me add that I am defining build quality to the OVERALL quality of the entire laptop, and since aesthetics are subjective it is not included. Also let me add that I see nothing wrong with sacrificing build quality for aesthetics or a smaller weight (At 2.6kg, I definitely hate to carry around my Thinkpad sometimes), but the fact of the matter is that a Thinkpad sets the standard for quality because it is engineered to be robust, efficient, power-friendly, durable, and quality machine while taking little consideration of the aesthetics of the laptop, and of course does the best job at it.
I've never complained about the Thinkpad. They are very durable and rugged, but I don't consider those two things and build quality to be one in the same.
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post #69 of 119
Add 1 more sale for Samsung.

My brother asked me what sort of tablet to get for his sons 16th birthday. I told him the 32GB Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1.

He asked me why not an iPad? I said because it is made by Apple. biggrin.gif
post #70 of 119
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Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Add 1 more sale for Samsung.
My brother asked me what sort of tablet to get for his sons 16th birthday. I told him the 32GB Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1.
He asked me why not an iPad? I said because it is made by Apple. biggrin.gif

Excellent! We need more like you.
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