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post #131 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

that is sarcasm my friend. and yes in my POOR country philippines we rarely buy a subsidized phone under contract, we always buy unlocked phones at full retail price and we have a prepaid service, need more airtime? buy a prepaid card.

LOL... I guess I fell for it then. You're right though... It seems that the "rest of the world" has figured out how to do the whole cell phone thing the right way, but here in the US; people are still "conditioned" to getting the phone "cheap" today regardless of how much it ends up costing them in the end. It's a cultural thing I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

Huh? The only way that is true is if buying a phone at full price prevents you from having to change the contract you are on to one that would cost you significantly more money (greater than several hundred over the 2-year period if we are talking about a new, high end phone). At least in the U.S., it is always cheaper to buy the subsidized phone if the particular scenario noted above does not apply.

If you're already on a contract with a carrier.... They already got their money from you... And even if you go and renew your contract and get the high end phone at a discounted price; you're still spending more money during the 24 month period than if you were to buy the phone at its full retail price and go to one of the plenty of "no contract" service providers in the US.

Samsung Galaxy SIII
* MetroPCS: $500 for the phone + $70 x 24 months = $2180 out of pocket in the 2 years that a normal contract would last with another provider. And you can go with the $55/month plan and save $360.

* Verizon: $200 for the phone + $110 x 24 months = $2840 out of pocket in the 2 year contract. --> ($110 amount is based on Verizon's "Share Everything Plan" that costs $40/month for Smart Phones + $70/month for 4GB of data).

* ATT: $199 for the phone + [$69.99/mo (Unlimited Voice Individual Plan) + $30/mo (3GB Data Plan)] * 24 months = $2599.75 out of pocket in the 2 year contract.

--- Let's even go as far as classifying MetroPCS as a carrier and not buy the phone from them.

* Full retail on the 32GB Samsung Galaxy SIII is $650.
* You can get Unlimited Voice, Text and Data (Speeds get throttled after 2.5GB has been used, but all carriers do this) for as low as $50 from a number of "no contract" providers and you don't have to buy the phones from them; they will work with the phone you bring in.
My math says I'm only spending $1800 in the 24 month period and that is less than what you'd spend going with a 2 year contract with ATT/Verizon just to get the phone for $200.

So please show me where it is that one saves money by going with the "subsidized" phones?
You cannot magically put such a huge caveat to your original statement and pretend like it still works. What you are saying now puts huge restrictions on the setup. You also neglect to mention key features like speed and said high speed signal availability that you don't get with no contract providers. Also, Verizon does not throttle data if you are still grandfathered into unlimited.

I will actually be buying my phones at full price from now on, but only to maintain my unlimited data. You show me a no contract provider that will give me 4G LTE in places like Iowa City, IA (or even Omaha, NE), and then you will have a point about the prices. You get what you pay for with no contract providers.
Edited by stargate125645 - 10/29/12 at 6:37pm
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post #132 of 192
The best part is the way they think this is actually going to stop people from unlocking their phones. tongue.gif
post #133 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Guys, again, JAILBREAKING/ROOTING DOES NOT EQUAL UNLOCKING. The arguments about jailbreaking only apply to tablets at the moment.
Unlocking an iphone is facilitated by jailbreaking, but jailbreaking an iphone does not mean you are unlocking.
Likewise, rooting an Android device does not mean you're unlocking. Actually, there is no possible way to unlock by rooting, you have to get the code in order to unlock, and the unlock does not require root.
Actually, rooting an android device allows for it to be flashed to another carrier, so it is a pretty big deal. A lot of people are flashing decent smartphones to prepaid CDMA carriers so they have broader options. All it takes is root access, a donor phone(from the other carrier) and an hour or two and your Verizon smartphone is now happily running on Boost mobile.

If I can't root my phone legally because of the "potential to unlock the device to another carrier" then I will not be a happy camper. I do no wrong, and I do not tether illegally(let alone at all). Wanna know why I root my phone? I want nexus quality software(with a few additional tweaks) with the hardware quality from the other vendors. It's not to say that I wouldn't like a nexus device, but I really like having an SD slot too.

My next phone won't be a Nexus either, and I'm okay with that as long as AOKP and Paranoid Android are around so I can get my AOSP fill.
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post #134 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post

If you're already on a contract with a carrier.... They already got their money from you... And even if you go and renew your contract and get the high end phone at a discounted price; you're still spending more money during the 24 month period than if you were to buy the phone at its full retail price and go to one of the plenty of "no contract" service providers in the US.
Samsung Galaxy SIII
* MetroPCS: $500 for the phone + $70 x 24 months = $2180 out of pocket in the 2 years that a normal contract would last with another provider. And you can go with the $55/month plan and save $360.
* Verizon: $200 for the phone + $110 x 24 months = $2840 out of pocket in the 2 year contract. --> ($110 amount is based on Verizon's "Share Everything Plan" that costs $40/month for Smart Phones + $70/month for 4GB of data).
* ATT: $199 for the phone + [$69.99/mo (Unlimited Voice Individual Plan) + $30/mo (3GB Data Plan)] * 24 months = $2599.75 out of pocket in the 2 year contract.
--- Let's even go as far as classifying MetroPCS as a carrier and not buy the phone from them.
* Full retail on the 32GB Samsung Galaxy SIII is $650.
* You can get Unlimited Voice, Text and Data (Speeds get throttled after 2.5GB has been used, but all carriers do this) for as low as $50 from a number of "no contract" providers and you don't have to buy the phones from them; they will work with the phone you bring in.
My math says I'm only spending $1800 in the 24 month period and that is less than what you'd spend going with a 2 year contract with ATT/Verizon just to get the phone for $200.
So please show me where it is that one saves money by going with the "subsidized" phones?

1 huge problem with this scenario:

The big providers (and really the only providers in with service in many places) charge the same for the same plan regardless of whether you are on a contract-bought phone or not.

So it comes down to this:
Pay $600 and pay the $110 monthly fee or whatever the rate is and not be locked into a 2 year contract.
OR
Pay $200 and pay the same monthly fee and be locked into a 2 year contract.

The second option saves you $400 if you plan on using that phone for 2 years. The first option is only good for people that plan to upgrade phones every year, and even then carriers will usually let you upgrade early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvh11 View Post

Actually, rooting an android device allows for it to be flashed to another carrier, so it is a pretty big deal. A lot of people are flashing decent smartphones to prepaid CDMA carriers so they have broader options. All it takes is root access, a donor phone(from the other carrier) and an hour or two and your Verizon smartphone is now happily running on Boost mobile.
If I can't root my phone legally because of the "potential to unlock the device to another carrier" then I will not be a happy camper. I do no wrong, and I do not tether illegally(let alone at all). Wanna know why I root my phone? I want nexus quality software(with a few additional tweaks) with the hardware quality from the other vendors. It's not to say that I wouldn't like a nexus device, but I really like having an SD slot too.
My next phone won't be a Nexus either, and I'm okay with that as long as AOKP and Paranoid Android are around so I can get my AOSP fill.

Did not realize that the procedures are different for GSM and CDMA phones. I just thought that all that had to be done was register the IMEI number with Sprint or whoever you planned to move to.
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post #135 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

1 huge problem with this scenario:
The big providers (and really the only providers in with service in many places) charge the same for the same plan regardless of whether you are on a contract-bought phone or not.
So it comes down to this:
Pay $600 and pay the $110 monthly fee or whatever the rate is and not be locked into a 2 year contract.
OR
Pay $200 and pay the same monthly fee and be locked into a 2 year contract.
The second option saves you $400 if you plan on using that phone for 2 years. The first option is only good for people that plan to upgrade phones every year, and even then carriers will usually let you upgrade early.
Did not realize that the procedures are different for GSM and CDMA phones. I just thought that all that had to be done was register the IMEI number with Sprint or whoever you planned to move to.

Or you get in a 2 year contract with sprint like I do only to find out you don't get service indoors anywhere I go, luckily that is almost over haha.
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post #136 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I will admit I don't know the laws and dictates of all Asian countries but I do know in China it's impossible to get locked phones, the government won't stand for it as all telecoms companies are state owned.

Given the distinction between locked Chinese phones and unlocked Hong Kong phones, I'm inclined to question that. Whether this refers to locked bootloaders or carrier-locked phones I don't know.

At any rate, hammering your Congresscritters (and only yours, as duox pointed out) will do nothing unless you make it clear that the DMCA itself needs to be suspended and rewritten to accurately reflect current technology and uses thereof. Cry foul all you want, but without giving your representative an option to present to other representatives in a manner that can make, change, or revoke law, nothing will happen.
    
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post #137 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

You cannot magically put such a huge caveat to your original statement and pretend like it still works. What you are saying now puts huge restrictions on the setup. You also neglect to mention key features like speed and said high speed signal availability that you don't get with no contract providers. Also, Verizon does not throttle data if you are still grandfathered into unlimited.
I will actually be buying my phones at full price from now on, but only to maintain my unlimited data. You show me a no contract provider that will give me 4G LTE in places like Iowa City, IA (or even Omaha, NE), and then you will have a point about the prices. You get what you pay for with no contract providers.

Don't know what you mean about putting caveats to my original statement. My last post was a copy/paste of my original statement with a few lines added in (ATT pricing). Did not change any of the math. What restrictions are we talking about? If you mean the throttling part; well... being grandfathered into true unlimited is a "perk" that few have and no new customers can get it so for practical purposes... Verizon does throttle data after a certain bandwidth threshold has been reached... It may not what happens to YOU, but it is what every new customer gets.

As far as prices and coverages... I don't know much about how 4G LTE coverage is in the mid-west (or anywhere other than Florida for that matter), but MY reality is that I can get statewide 4G LTE coverage with a "no-contract" company for as low as $55 and that includes unlimited voice, text and data. The speed gets throttled once you reach 2.5GB of used bandwidth, but again... That is true of all carriers (with the exception of people that got grandfathered into older plans).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

1 huge problem with this scenario:
The big providers (and really the only providers in with service in many places) charge the same for the same plan regardless of whether you are on a contract-bought phone or not.
So it comes down to this:
Pay $600 and pay the $110 monthly fee or whatever the rate is and not be locked into a 2 year contract.
OR
Pay $200 and pay the same monthly fee and be locked into a 2 year contract.
The second option saves you $400 if you plan on using that phone for 2 years. The first option is only good for people that plan to upgrade phones every year, and even then carriers will usually let you upgrade early.
Did not realize that the procedures are different for GSM and CDMA phones. I just thought that all that had to be done was register the IMEI number with Sprint or whoever you planned to move to.

My scenario doesn't involve going to the same carriers that would subsidize the phone for you. And there are companies that will sell me unlimited voice/text/data for a lot less than what ATT/Verizon/Sprint charge.
That's where the savings come from.

I don't want to turn this thread into a "my way is better than your way" kind of thing.
The point I'm trying to make is really quite simple: Carriers are in it to make money... If they get the phones from the manufacturers (even at the huge discounts they get) for a price and sell them to you at a loss... You know full well that they're losing money on the $200 Samsung Galaxy SIII.... Where do you think they make that money and their profit from?

My point is... Leaving the subsidized phone model behind will open the doors for more competition which will bring prices down. But as long as people keep wanting the "latest and greatest" for free; the big carriers will continue to let us have that phone for "cheap".

The rest of the world can't be wrong on this.
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post #138 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post

My scenario doesn't involve going to the same carriers that would subsidize the phone for you. And there are companies that will sell me unlimited voice/text/data for a lot less than what ATT/Verizon/Sprint charge.
That's where the savings come from.
I don't want to turn this thread into a "my way is better than your way" kind of thing.
The point I'm trying to make is really quite simple: Carriers are in it to make money... If they get the phones from the manufacturers (even at the huge discounts they get) for a price and sell them to you at a loss... You know full well that they're losing money on the $200 Samsung Galaxy SIII.... Where do you think they make that money and their profit from?
My point is... Leaving the subsidized phone model behind will open the doors for more competition which will bring prices down. But as long as people keep wanting the "latest and greatest" for free; the big carriers will continue to let us have that phone for "cheap".
The rest of the world can't be wrong on this.

Your scenario also doesn't account for areas that those companies don't service. For example, our vacation home which we visit regularly only has ATT reception. There is no T-mobile, Verizon, or Sprint servicing that area, so we are locked to ATT as a result. A few blocks down from us, our friends are only able to get Verizon.

If you only ever stay in major metropolitan areas, those companies would be fine. However, as soon as you get out into rural areas, good luck getting any signals.
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post #139 of 192
Thankfully, HTC provides unlocking tools directly from the source.
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post #140 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Your scenario also doesn't account for areas that those companies don't service. For example, our vacation home which we visit regularly only has ATT reception. There is no T-mobile, Verizon, or Sprint servicing that area, so we are locked to ATT as a result. A few blocks down from us, our friends are only able to get Verizon.
If you only ever stay in major metropolitan areas, those companies would be fine. However, as soon as you get out into rural areas, good luck getting any signals.


Well; yeah! But you have a vacation home; that fact kind of makes any argument for savings I can come up with null in your case. grouphug.gif Please note that group-hug smiley... My remark is there simply to make light of the situation. tongue.gif
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