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Google Nexus 10: 2560x1600, 300ppi, 10" PLS Display, Exynos 5250 (Cortex-A15), Android 4.2 - Page 10

post #91 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider_2001 View Post

Not used to paying tax online so I didn't think about it. I don't know when the last time I paid tax for something online was...Same with shipping...All my shipping is free 2nd day from either Amazon prime or Shoprunner from Newegg..
I didn't know Walmart sold Nexus 10's....I thought the only place you could get them was from Google..

Amazon charges state sales tax now and not every seller can do prime shipping. I was in the same boat as you about where I thought I could buy a nexus. I guess Google sold a bunch to retailers before the holidays so there would be more availability for consumers. I think most people were under the same impression and because of that Walmart had a good stock of them.
post #92 of 144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

To everyone who is complaining about the lack of an micro sd slot.... it takes about 10 min to get usb OTG working on the nexus 10 which supports up to 3TB HDDs. So in reality the nexus 10 has unlimited storage space... I have a 32gb flash drive formatted in NTFS that holds more than enough 1080p BR rips in mkv for a road trip. Also if you want to see what this device is truly capable of I recommend looking into Timescapes in 1440p and then trying to tell me the iPad 4 has a better screen. As for those who are complaining about the lack of apps that support the N10's resolution it is only a matter of time before they are updated since android doesn't hard code app resolution like apple does. This means that if you bought an app on an iPhone you will have to pay for it again if you want it to work on your iPad without looking like crap. Seriously people, learn how to read up on a device before you start bashing it completely.

Thank you.

Lack of microSD isn't a huge deal.

I don't see iPhone 5 fanboys complaining about the lack of microSD.
post #93 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehler View Post

Thank you.
Lack of microSD isn't a huge deal.
I don't see iPhone 5 fanboys complaining about the lack of microSD.

Or the lack of a product that meets the price they pay...
post #94 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

To everyone who is complaining about the lack of an micro sd slot.... it takes about 10 min to get usb OTG working on the nexus 10 which supports up to 3TB HDDs. So in reality the nexus 10 has unlimited storage space... I have a 32gb flash drive formatted in NTFS that holds more than enough 1080p BR rips in mkv for a road trip. Also if you want to see what this device is truly capable of I recommend looking into Timescapes in 1440p and then trying to tell me the iPad 4 has a better screen.
You may be able to get USB OTG up and running in 10 minutes, but it's still not as convenient as sticking in a little Micro SD card. Also better in what way? The Nexus 10 is sharper, but the iPad 4 has superior contrast, black levels, and colour accuracy.
Quote:
As for those who are complaining about the lack of apps that support the N10's resolution it is only a matter of time before they are updated since android doesn't hard code app resolution like apple does. This means that if you bought an app on an iPhone you will have to pay for it again if you want it to work on your iPad without looking like ****. Seriously people, learn how to read up on a device before you start bashing it completely.
The way Android works, all apps should support the Nexus 10's resolution... no?

You're a bit out of date in regard to Apple. A developer can update an iPhone app to include the iPad version as well. There are many "universal" apps on the App Store. Also it doesn't matter that Apple has "hardcoded" the app resolution in iOS, since it's easily changed, and all iPhones until the recent iPhone 5 have used the same base resolution. There's never been anything in place to stop developers from coding their apps to support multiple resolutions and aspect ratios, it's just it's never been necessary until the last couple of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

Or the lack of a product that meets the price they pay...
No need to belittle our choice in a smartphone.
post #95 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehler View Post

Thank you.
Lack of microSD isn't a huge deal.
I don't see iPhone 5 fanboys complaining about the lack of microSD.

Of course they aren't...They have never had the option of having one in their device, therefore do not know what they are missing out on. Apple doesn't put an SD slot in theirs because they would rather you pay an extra $100 for the next level device for more storage instead of buying the cheapest and then dropping a 32 gig SD card in it for 30 bucks...

I guess they could always do what Sony did and make a special SD card like they did for the Vita that only works with the Vita cause of the special size...That would be the Apple thing to do.
    
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post #96 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

The way Android works, all apps should support the Nexus 10's resolution... no?
They should in theory but an example of an app that need to be updated to support devices with a screen size larger that 7" would be flipboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

You're a bit out of date in regard to Apple. A developer can update an iPhone app to include the iPad version as well. There are many "universal" apps on the App Store. Also it doesn't matter that Apple has "hardcoded" the app resolution in iOS, since it's easily changed, and all iPhones until the recent iPhone 5 have used the same base resolution. There's never been anything in place to stop developers from coding their apps to support multiple resolutions and aspect ratios, it's just it's never been necessary until the last couple of years.

This is true to an extent but not in the way that android handles it. To quote from Apple’s Drawing and Printing Guide for iOS:
In iOS there is a distinction between the coordinates you specify in your drawing code and the pixels of the underlying device. When using native drawing technologies such as Quartz, UIKit, and Core Animation, the drawing coordinate space and the view’s coordinate space are both logical coordinate spaces, with distances measured in points. These logical coordinate systems are decoupled from the device coordinate space used by the system frameworks to manage the pixels onscreen.
The system automatically maps points in the view’s coordinate space to pixels in the device coordinate space, but this mapping is not always one-to-one. This behavior leads to an important fact that you should always remember:
One point does not necessarily correspond to one physical pixel.
The purpose of using points (and the logical coordinate system) is to provide a consistent size of output that is device independent. For most purposes, the actual size of a point is irrelevant. The goal of points is to provide a relatively consistent scale that you can use in your code to specify the size and position of views and rendered content. How points are actually mapped to pixels is a detail that is handled by the system frameworks. For example, on a device with a high-resolution screen, a line that is one point wide may actually result in a line that is two physical pixels wide. The result is that if you draw the same content on two similar devices, with only one of them having a high-resolution screen, the content appears to be about the same size on both devices.

So while apps may work across non retina displays and retina dislpays they are not truly taking advantage of the higher ppi found on the retina display. When the iPhone 5 was introduced this system no longer solved the issues for developers because the resolution was not being doubled in both directions like it was when the retina display was introduced, but instead the vertical margin was increased from 960 pixels to 1136 pixels. Correct me if i am wrong but this means that unless apps are remade specifically for the iPhone 5 they are displayed with black bars above and below the app frame on screen. This would make the large screen size only useful in the sense that you can fit another row of apps on each home screen. Since iOS apps have always be programmed to a specific resolution (hard coded) this is also the reason why the iPad mini, being a new screen size for the iOS line, has the same resolution as an iPad 2. To me this seems like a poorly thought out tactic that just limits innovation.

Also I apologize if I offended you with my iSheep comment. That was not my intention. I would just like encourage current iOS users to consider their options before they blindly go out and buy whatever Apple decides to slap their logo on. If you are buying you devices purely as a status statement then you would be making the right choice with an Apple product. But if you want a device that has higher performance at a lower cost and the ability to customize your phone to how you use it then go out and buy an android device as you next phone or tablet. If you really dislike it you can always return it.
post #97 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

They should in theory but an example of an app that need to be updated to support devices with a screen size larger that 7" would be flipboard.
I see.
Quote:
This is true to an extent but not in the way that android handles it. To quote from Apple’s Drawing and Printing Guide for iOS:
In iOS there is a distinction between the coordinates you specify in your drawing code and the pixels of the underlying device. When using native drawing technologies such as Quartz, UIKit, and Core Animation, the drawing coordinate space and the view’s coordinate space are both logical coordinate spaces, with distances measured in points. These logical coordinate systems are decoupled from the device coordinate space used by the system frameworks to manage the pixels onscreen.
The system automatically maps points in the view’s coordinate space to pixels in the device coordinate space, but this mapping is not always one-to-one. This behavior leads to an important fact that you should always remember:
One point does not necessarily correspond to one physical pixel.
The purpose of using points (and the logical coordinate system) is to provide a consistent size of output that is device independent. For most purposes, the actual size of a point is irrelevant. The goal of points is to provide a relatively consistent scale that you can use in your code to specify the size and position of views and rendered content. How points are actually mapped to pixels is a detail that is handled by the system frameworks. For example, on a device with a high-resolution screen, a line that is one point wide may actually result in a line that is two physical pixels wide. The result is that if you draw the same content on two similar devices, with only one of them having a high-resolution screen, the content appears to be about the same size on both devices.

So while apps may work across non retina displays and retina dislpays they are not truly taking advantage of the higher ppi found on the retina display.
That's not true. They are benefiting from the pixel density -- everything becomes much sharper. it's just it isn't gaining any more workspace.
Quote:
When the iPhone 5 was introduced this system no longer solved the issues for developers because the resolution was not being doubled in both directions like it was when the retina display was introduced, but instead the vertical margin was increased from 960 pixels to 1136 pixels. Correct me if i am wrong but this means that unless apps are remade specifically for the iPhone 5 they are displayed with black bars above and below the app frame on screen. This would make the large screen size only useful in the sense that you can fit another row of apps on each home screen. Since iOS apps have always be programmed to a specific resolution (hard coded) this is also the reason why the iPad mini, being a new screen size for the iOS line, has the same resolution as an iPad 2. To me this seems like a poorly thought out tactic that just limits innovation.
This system made it almost effortless for developers to support the Retina displays -- all that was needed was higher resolution graphics. With the iPhone 5 -- you only need to provide an 1136x640 start up image to enable your app to work with the iPhone 5's size. Yes it would mean they have black bars until updated, only to make sure that developers have made sure their app is going to work properly with the iPhone 5.

Developers don't necessarily hardcode their apps -- for example if I was to place a button at the bottom right of the screen, I would ask for the iPhone's resolution and use those values, not assume it was 480x320. If I have coded my app like that, then there should be relatively little changes to make to my app to get it working perfectly with the 5.

It isn't difficult for Apple to change the resolution of iOS.Up until recently it's always been the same because they've always released devices with the same resolution, and it's not limiting at all -- it's a good idea because it reduces fragmentation. If I want to develop an app for iOS all I need to think about is three different possible workspaces: 480x320, 536x320 (which is very similar to the former) and 1024x768. For the Retina displays I need only provide higher resolution assets.
Quote:
Also I apologize if I offended you with my iSheep comment. That was not my intention. I would just like encourage current iOS users to consider their options before they blindly go out and buy whatever Apple decides to slap their logo on. If you are buying you devices purely as a status statement then you would be making the right choice with an Apple product. But if you want a device that has higher performance at a lower cost and the ability to customize your phone to how you use it then go out and buy an android device as you next phone or tablet. If you really dislike it you can always return it.
You didn't, don't worry. I'm not in anyway unhappy with my iDevices, but I'm invested in Apple's ecosystem so Apple would have to screw up severely for me to switch. The droids may have higher performance, but the iPhone 5 is still faster in a lot of tests and often smoother too. I also prefer the App Store to Google Play.
post #98 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I see.
That's not true. They are benefiting from the pixel density -- everything becomes much sharper. it's just it isn't gaining any more workspace.
I think you are missing what this actually means. An app that runs on a non retina display will work on a retina disply with no issues because the resolution is exactly double in both dimensions. So 1 pixel on a non retina display becomes 4 identical pixels on a retina display. This means would apps would look exactly the same on both screens with no added clarity on the retina display. The only way to improve clarity is to remake the app specifically for a retina display. As for being invested in the apple ecosystem I can see why you are so attached. Did the introduction of the lightning port force you to reinvest in a slew of new devices? For me personally the only thing extra that I have invested in for my android devices was a $0.99 usb host cable (USB OTG). This allowed me to not only hook up my existing 3 3TB external drives to any of my android devices but also allowed the use of a usb keyboard and mouse, wireless xbox 360 controller and external wifi adapter for extend wifi range. I can also use that cord to connect to my Canon T1i and use my tablet and phone as a remote that can control every aspect of my camera including Live View mode. And then of course the fact that I can just plug and hdmi cord into almost any display in my house for obvious reasons. So in reality you would not have to invest any money in android other than the device itself.

As for these tests you claim iDevices beat android in my nexus 10 after loading a custom rom and kernel beat every benchmark of the iPad 4 and iPhone 5. But you should also know that benchmarks serve no purpose other than bragging rights because they do not reflect much real world performance.
Edited by Holy Chicken - 1/1/13 at 2:06pm
post #99 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I see.
That's not true. They are benefiting from the pixel density -- everything becomes much sharper. it's just it isn't gaining any more workspace.

Also if you don't want to take my word for the image quality on a retina display read this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15057933&postcount=75
post #100 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

I think you are missing what this actually means. An app that runs on a non retina display will work on a retina disply with no issues because the resolution is exactly double in both dimensions. So 1 pixel on a non retina display becomes 4 identical pixels on a retina display. This means would apps would look exactly the same on both screens with no added clarity on the retina display. The only way to improve clarity is to remake the app specifically for a retina display.
Actually this isn't what happens at all. The developer doesn't have to "remake" the app for the Retina display -- the app is resolution independent, and iOS automatically renders it at the higher resolution. That's why the only work developers need to do to support the Retina display is provide double resolution assets -- no reworking of the code is required to make it work with the Retina display. (Though of course you may need to fix some bugs depending on how well you've written your app.)

This is because of the point coordinate system that iOS uses. An app is defined as 480x320 points, and a point can be any number of pixels -- and in the case of current Retina displays, it is 2.

Let's say you've designed an app and you've placed a button with the dimensions 10, 12, 60, 30 (x, y, w, h). When this app runs on an iPhone 3GS -- which has a 480x320 resolution -- that button's dimensions translates into 10, 12, 60, 30 pixels, but when run on an iPhone 4 -- which has a 960x640 resolution -- that button's dimensions translates into 20, 24, 120, 60 pixels. So the actual rendering of the button is being spread across four times as many pixels, resulting in a much sharper quality. It is not simply being stretched (duplicated pixels), it is being drawn across more pixels.
Quote:
As for being invested in the apple ecosystem I can see why you are so attached. Did the introduction of the lightning port force you to reinvest in a slew of new devices? For me personally the only thing extra that I have invested in for my android devices was a $0.99 usb host cable (USB OTG). This allowed me to not only hook up my existing 3 3TB external drives to any of my android devices but also allowed the use of a usb keyboard and mouse, wireless xbox 360 controller and external wifi adapter for extend wifi range. I can also use that cord to connect to my Canon T1i and use my tablet and phone as a remote that can control every aspect of my camera including Live View mode. And then of course the fact that I can just plug and hdmi cord into almost any display in my house for obvious reasons. So in reality you would not have to invest any money in android other than the device itself.
I'm not referring to accessories, I have very few of them. The one I do own and care about would work if I bought the adaptor from Apple but it would be cheaper to just buy that cable again since I really only have that accessory.

It's apps, music, movies, books, tv shows, etc., which I'm invested in through Apple. My whole family uses iDevices and Macs, and we all use the same account, so everything we buy either on the iOS App Store or the Mac App Store is available to all our devices. So we are quite invested. All our iDevices, Macs and our Apple TV (box) work together seamlessly too. There's nothing Android offers which would entice me to switch, and even if it did the benefits of it would have to outweigh losing everything I have with Apple.
Quote:
As for these tests you claim iDevices beat android in my nexus 10 after loading a custom rom and kernel beat every benchmark of the iPad 4 and iPhone 5. But you should also know that benchmarks serve no purpose other than bragging rights because they do not reflect much real world performance.
That depends on the benchmark. GeekBench and the like, yes. But more real world tests like SunSpider, Octane, Kraken, and similar, etc., all carry some weight. Also there are graphics benchmarks which are important, and battery life benchmarks too -- the Nexus 10 is no slouch in either of those departments, but the iPad 4 does pull ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chicken View Post

Also if you don't want to take my word for the image quality on a retina display read this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15057933&postcount=75
This is talking about how the Retina display works in OS X on the Mac, not on iOS. The two shouldn't be confused. On iOS all you need to do is compile your app against iOS 4 and it will run as a "Retina-app" on a Retina device, with or without code changes -- though if you've coded it poorly (or lazily) you'll obviously need to fix any bugs. On the Mac it's more complicated as the OS is much more complicated and you aren't forced to only get apps through the Mac App Store. Though I'm not thoroughly versed in how much work is needed to get a Retina app on the Mac up and running, I do know it is more, and that they are simply upscaled until updated to support it. Again this process shouldn't be compared against the process on iOS.
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