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[TH] Windows 8: Does AMD's Bulldozer Architecture Benefit? - Page 4

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.M. View Post

Lol, no one blamed windows 7 unless they are retarded. If anyone, including yourself thought this was the case then they should severely re-evaluate their knowledge base before posting.
FMA, AVX and XOP instruction greatly increase the throughput of the module design, without them you're left with shoehorning batch decode. Right now theres a big holdback with thread staging and execution resource utilization. If anyone thought a refresh of an operating system and a scheduler update were going to alter Intel x86, then they are severely mistaken.
Yeah...People actually did...
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post #32 of 41
Not going to fall in the i7 vs FX hole again. I just won't.
post #33 of 41
Quote:
amd never fails to dissapoint

It is disheartening to see a company such as AMD, a once powerful and adept x86 microprocessor designer and manufacturer, fall into the deep pit that it has.

If you don't have engineers pump out quality products, then your company has no future.
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post #34 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Just because FX fails in Cinebench single thread benchmark doesn't mean that it would always perform lower. Cinebench depends on the FPU performance and a single core of FX can only utilize the half of 256 Bit FPU because of shared FPU unit between both cores in a Piledriver module. And when its about multithread FX wins because of it now uses all four 256 Bit FPU, and then because of its higher clock rate FX wins over i5.

AND as I've stated above that "Just because FX fails in Cinebench single thread benchmark doesn't mean that it would always perform lower in single thread" I believe is true because most real world single thread programs don't expect much from FPU. They can perform at its optimum speed by CPU's higher Integer Bandwidth. And most you should know FX's each core has two Integer pipeline while i5 has ONLY ONE. Clearly FX has massive integer bandwidth than i5 and some i7 and indeed FX wins in most Integer test benchmark. This proves FX may be even feel faster in most single thread apps (especially those which hasn't been designed to use Floating Point Unit)...<< This is what people don't understand.

And even if Windows explorer and Internet browsers are single thread, they can perform more quickly with FX because of FX's Dual Integer Pipeline per Core, obviously FX can handle more threads per core than an i5. They will feel equal or may be faster than i5, Also you can not forget Internet browsers can now use GPU for 2D/3D workload. AND I BELIEVE FX WILL REALLY FEEL FASTER.


Quote from AnadTech's article "AMD Core Counts and Bulldozer: Preparing for an APU World"


Quote:
Behind the FP scheduler are two 128-bit wide FMACs. AMD says that each thread dispatched to the core can take one of the 128-bit FMACs or, if one thread is purely integer, the other can use all of the FP execution resources to itself.

This proves your first paragraph wrong.
 
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post #35 of 41
Anyone still holding onto the idea that Bulldozer is just some widely under-utilized chip that is just bursting with potential that can't be tapped 'cause of Intel or Microsoft' just deserves to be ignored at this point.
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post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by seepra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

My question is why did they test with an old 8150? The test should have been done using an 8350. Or perhaps both if they really wanted to test a bulldozer. But the 8350 should certainly not have been ignored.
The results they achieved are interesting, but not entirely relevant considering they are not testing using the current architecture. There's a good chance that piledriver with its optimizations would respond differently to the same tests.
Because when the FX-8150 came out, AMD pointed finger at Windows for not utilizing their obscure architecture efficiently enough. Statements where said about hotfixes improving performance, and that Windows 8 would run the Bulldozer better. The FX-8150 isn't FX-8350, and the FX-8350 wasn't the processor these statements were made for.

Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

What an annoying article, either do the job properly (Include Piledriver as well) or just don't bother at all.

Refer to the above post. Of course they could include Piledriver, but the main purpose of this review is to assess if what AMD and Microsoft claimed a year ago is true or not.

In any case, it is a valid suggestion to include Piledriver, but its absence doesn't make the article annoying. If you read AMD's own words about it, which I quoted in the OP, I'd say there isn't much difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 with Piledriver either:
Quote:
AMD told us not to expect much from Windows 8 when it introduced FX-8350.

Just so we're clear, the patches came out when? Months ago?

$5 says the "patches" are old and outdated, and MS put newer ones in the normal update lineup for people running BD/PD and just put it in Win8 all together. Compare the patch and Win8 to what Win7 was when the patches came out. Bet you see a difference then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Anyone still holding onto the idea that Bulldozer is just some widely under-utilized chip that is just bursting with potential that can't be tapped 'cause of Intel or Microsoft' just deserves to be ignored at this point.

The cores are not and never really were. The Instruction sets however, are. Same for Intel, since they support most of the new ones now too. Very few things actually make use of AVX (Integer or FP) or anything else that came out in the last few years.
Edited by KyadCK - 10/31/12 at 9:04pm
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post #37 of 41
I just saw a benchmark for the Piledriver cores used in the Trinity APUs and it was pretty sad... Here's the score from the MSI GX60. It's got the 7970M paired with an A10-4600M APU.



Not bad until you realize that the 7970M is supposed to score around something like this:



That's with the i7-3720QM.

Even on top of that... the first gen i5-460M from 2010, a hyper-threaded dual core, scores 7.5k. That's right... a two year old dual core, that's no longer being produced, scores higher than AMD's fastest laptop CPU.



I just wish AMD would seriously go back and just LOOK at the architecture from the Thuban cores. There's no reason to continue pursuing this course with the Bulldozer chips. There's no extra performance to be tapped out of that line. It's just got crap performance and really need a solid 50% boost in the IPC area. >.>
Edited by Imglidinhere - 10/31/12 at 9:20pm
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post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.M. View Post

Lol, no one blamed windows 7 unless they are retarded. If anyone, including yourself thought this was the case then they should severely re-evaluate their knowledge base before posting.

In the weeks following the bulldozer launch, BDs failure to deliver was blamed on software. I'm not talking just random fanboys making up excuses, AMD themselves blamed windows 7.

Once patched windows 7 showed up it was obvious that the performance promises were just FUD. Yet, that didn't stop the sounds of "wait for windows 8" from echoing around this forum for the past months.
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post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

I just saw a benchmark for the Piledriver cores used in the Trinity APUs and it was pretty sad...

That CPU score is pathetic for any quad core. I'm not trying to bash AMD here, but really, my old i5-460M scored 7.5k and that's a first gen mobile i5 from 2010.
I just wish AMD would seriously go back and just LOOK at the architecture from the Thuban cores. There's no reason to continue pursuing this course with the Bulldozer chips. There's no extra performance to be tapped out of that line. It's just got crap performance and really need a solid 50% boost in the IPC area. >.>

You honestly think AMD ditched the architecture that made them so much money and recognition because they wanted to?

Piledriver already beats K10 and K10.5 in its second revision. Why would they spend money to go back. There's tons of potential in Bulldozer, lol. They got 7% IPC from a 20% power consumption revision.

Intel already spends duckets in R&D to squeeze out 10% increases. The future is gpgpu.
Edited by S.M. - 10/31/12 at 9:32pm
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post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.M. View Post


You honestly think AMD ditched the architecture that made them so much money and recognition because they wanted to?

Piledriver already beats K10 and K10.5 in its second revision. Why would they spend money to go back.

Intel already spends duckets in R&D to squeeze out 10% increases. The future is gpgpu.

Awww, I liked the driving cat avatar. frown.gif

And no kidding, I'd love to see Deneb/Thuban match Trinity in laptop space. Oh wait... They already tried that... Llano was matched with good power savings dispte a stronger GPU. rolleyes.gif
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Sound Blaster Tactic 3D Sigma Fisher STV-758 Logitech Extreme 3D Pro CH Throttle USB Pro 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X4 970BE @4.3Ghz 1.55v Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Gigabyte HD 7870 2GB Corsair Vengance 4x4GB 1800 10-10-10 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WesternDigital Caviar Blue 320GB WesternDigital Caviar Blue 500GB Crucial M4 64GB Lite-On DVD Burner 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair H80 3x 200mm - 2x 140mm - 2x 120mm Windows 8 3x LG Flatron E2242 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Wireless Logitech CM GX750 CM HAF XM Wireless Logitech 
Mouse PadAudio
The Desk Onboard Realtek 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II 960T @3.6 6-core 3.0NB GA-970A-UD3 Zotec POS Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz (2x4GB) (9-9-9-27) 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripraws 1600Mhz (2x4GB) (9-9-9-27) 1.5TB Seagate 2TB WD Caviar Black 80GB Corsair Force SSD 
OSOSOSOS
ESXi 5 Windows Server 2008 (x3) Windows 7 (x2) Windows XP (x1) 
OS
Windows Server 2012 
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