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Load-Line Calibration (LLC) settings are reversed. 0% means 100%.

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hello,

Recently I buyed the Asrock H77M motherboard. There is something what confuses me.
I suppose that most of you guys(girls) know what LLC (Load-Line Calibration) is.


If you click on the link below this line and click on: OC Tweaker: Voltage Configuration, and read the CPU Load-Line Calibration section...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1198504/complete-overclocking-guide-sandy-bridge-ivy-bridge-asrock-edition
Then you see that the setting 100% (level 1) gives the most compensation. That means more voltage under load. On the other hand, 0% (level 5) gives you the least compensation.

But it appears that in my UEFI this settting mean different things.
When I reset the bios of my motherboard to the standard settings, the LLC is set on auto. However, the auto setting mean in my case 100%!
I can see that because the actual setting can be seen in the middle. Between the name of the setting and the setting you can manually set, even if it is set on auto. Photo below this line to illustrate:




So I tested it with auto setting and 100% setting.
The CPU voltage under load (Intel Burn Test) was here both at 1.128V, and 1.152V at idle.

The CPU voltages at 50% were: 1.144V at load and 1.160 at idle.

The CPU voltages at 0% were: 1.168V at load and 1.176V at idle.


This is bizarre. As far as I can find, the 0% setting should give less voltage than the 100% setting. However in my case it is the opposite, the 0% gives me the most voltage.

What do you guys think? What does this mean?
It actually worries my because I read about voltage spikes damaging your CPU if you using LLC.
Is this a faulty bios? Or is the explaining wrong at the Complete Overclocking Guide? Or Asrock changed it on purpose for some reason. They were also too ¨lazy¨ to put a explanation in the description of this setting in the uefi, nothing in the manual either. And the most stupid thing is: I can´t disable it!

Is it possible that the bios suddenly becomes ¨unstable¨ or ¨decide¨ to do things right and changes the settings to the normal meanings??? So that 100% means suddenly means more voltage. If so, I have a problem.

What do you guys think about this??

.
Edited by snowcake1 - 11/1/12 at 6:49pm
post #2 of 6
LLC or load line calibration is a fancy way of saying Vdroop. Vdroop is a safety measure for your CPU.

Lets pretend that for all intensive purposes your CPU ran at 1.2v . Intel has set in temperature parameters to lower the voltage on the CPU when it gets too hot so that it won't over heat. Lets also pretend that you were running your CPU at max load and it gets above 50 degrees. The CPU will actually "drop" the voltage a tad to try and lower heat output. It will drop the voltage proportionally to the heat until it has reached a minimum value of CPU voltage, again, to try and prevent overheating. Now that may sound all well and good, but in reality it is completely useless because you only need to worry when your CPU hits 85C at max load, and quite frankly, you should have a after market heatsink that should be keeping your CPU WELL within it's thermal limits. Vdroop parameter temperatures start wayyyy before 85C. So vdroop can actually lower your volts to the point where it CAN cause instability at stock settings with a poor cooler *COUGH*intel stock cooler*COUGH* (although it is exceedingly rare).

Now what the LLC option does in particular is regulate the Vdroop. At 0% it is saying that Vdroop is completely off, and at 100%, it basically lets Vdroop do what ever it wants. So in essence when you have it at zero percent, you SHOULD see higher voltages, and what you are seeing is completely normal. If this build is a basic PC (meaning no overclocking) you can set the LLC to like 3 or something. I personally don't like vdroop running a muck on my voltages, but I also don't want the CPU to be running at 100% voltage the whole time (since that would shorten the life span of the CPU). So something in between 1 and 5 is a good choice for that option.

Forgive me for not writing a more scientific explanation, but just so you understand, what you are seeing on your PC is correct. 0-100% refers to the amount of vdroop, and not the CPU voltages directly. If you aren't going to overclock, leave vdroop at like 50-75%.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask. thumb.gif
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post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the answer! thumb.gif (But i have still questions)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

LLC or load line calibration is a fancy way of saying Vdroop. Vdroop is a safety measure for your CPU.
Lets pretend that for all intensive purposes your CPU ran at 1.2v . Intel has set in temperature parameters to lower the voltage on the CPU when it gets too hot so that it won't over heat. Lets also pretend that you were running your CPU at max load and it gets above 50 degrees. The CPU will actually "drop" the voltage a tad to try and lower heat output. It will drop the voltage proportionally to the heat until it has reached a minimum value of CPU voltage, again, to try and prevent overheating. Now that may sound all well and good, but in reality it is completely useless because you only need to worry when your CPU hits 85C at max load, and quite frankly, you should have a after market heatsink that should be keeping your CPU WELL within it's thermal limits. Vdroop parameter temperatures start wayyyy before 85C. So vdroop can actually lower your volts to the point where it CAN cause instability at stock settings with a poor cooler *COUGH*intel stock cooler*COUGH* (although it is exceedingly rare).
Now what the LLC option does in particular is regulate the Vdroop. At 0% it is saying that Vdroop is completely off, and at 100%, it basically lets Vdroop do what ever it wants. So in essence when you have it at zero percent, you SHOULD see higher voltages, and what you are seeing is completely normal. If this build is a basic PC (meaning no overclocking) you can set the LLC to like 3 or something. I personally don't like vdroop running a muck on my voltages, but I also don't want the CPU to be running at 100% voltage the whole time (since that would shorten the life span of the CPU). So something in between 1 and 5 is a good choice for that option.
Forgive me for not writing a more scientific explanation, but just so you understand, what you are seeing on your PC is correct. 0-100% refers to the amount of vdroop, and not the CPU voltages directly. If you aren't going to overclock, leave vdroop at like 50-75%.
If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask. thumb.gif

You are saying that at 0% Vdroop is of.
This link is saying something else: http://www.overclock.net/t/1198504/complete-overclocking-guide-sandy-bridge-ivy-bridge-asrock-edition
I quote a piece of that link:
Quote:
CPU Load-Line Calibration: Level 2 or Level 3 (whichever one will get you closest to BIOS Vcore)
~When a CPU increases to max speed, the Vcore usually tends to drop down. This is known as Vdroop. If the Vcore drops down too much, it can lead to stability issues. To combat this, CPU LLC was made to offset this loss. Level 5 (0%) will net you the least compensation, Level 3 (50%) an average compensation, and Level 1 (100%) the most compensation. You want to find the setting that will get you the same Vcore that is says in BIOS, during load in Windows as reported by CPU-Z.
~Level 1 seems to spike your Vcore up really high during load, so I do not recommend using that.
Here it says that at 100% you should see higher voltages, you say at 0%
This is very confusing for me. Is Asrock suddenly using different definitions?

i also found there is a 2 bios´es for ¨Fix CPU Load-Line Calibration option.¨ and ¨Modify CPU load line calibration behavior.¨
Note: This bios update is not for my Motherboard (Asrock h77M) but for the Asrock Z77 Extreme4. But this could also be a problem with my motherboard.

As far as i understand vdroop, you can´t turn it off. You can only compensate for vdroop with LLC. You are saying that at 0% Vdroop is off.
Could you please explain that?

But how do you know all this? smile.gif
Edited by snowcake1 - 11/2/12 at 10:43am
post #4 of 6
I have no idea why mobo manufactures can be so stupid at times.

I guess in this case, it is saying that 100% will give you zero Vdroop, and zero will give you the most Vdroop??? I think it is going to be the other way around for you, simply because that is what your results are showing.

I honestly have no idea why the mobo manufactures can't simply do what they did on 1366 and simply leave it as an enable and disable function. Ultimately the idea behind turning off Vdroop is simply saying that your CPU will ALWAYS get your set voltage. So if you set your cpu at 1.2v all it will ever get is 1.2v.

I guess it is not allowed in 1155 boards or something.

Let me at least tell you what happens on my board. Instead of having levels like 1-2-3-4-5 , I have normal, regular, high, ultra high, extreme. At extreme, you get zero vdroop, however, when you set your voltage at 1.35, the voltage that you will actually get is 1.4v . When I first saw this I nearly drove down to intels headquarters with a shot gun. To put Vdroop parameters on an overclocking ready CPU is infuriatingly stupid.....but I digress. The idea is that the highest compensation of vdroop will actually give you a slightly higher voltage than what is set in the BIOS.

I still think you are fine because you aren't going to be overclocking on an h77 mobo, but it is definitely confusing.
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post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

I have no idea why mobo manufactures can be so stupid at times.
I guess in this case, it is saying that 100% will give you zero Vdroop, and zero will give you the most Vdroop??? I think it is going to be the other way around for you, simply because that is what your results are showing.
I honestly have no idea why the mobo manufactures can't simply do what they did on 1366 and simply leave it as an enable and disable function. Ultimately the idea behind turning off Vdroop is simply saying that your CPU will ALWAYS get your set voltage. So if you set your cpu at 1.2v all it will ever get is 1.2v.
I guess it is not allowed in 1155 boards or something.
Let me at least tell you what happens on my board. Instead of having levels like 1-2-3-4-5 , I have normal, regular, high, ultra high, extreme. At extreme, you get zero vdroop, however, when you set your voltage at 1.35, the voltage that you will actually get is 1.4v . When I first saw this I nearly drove down to intels headquarters with a shot gun. To put Vdroop parameters on an overclocking ready CPU is infuriatingly stupid.....but I digress. The idea is that the highest compensation of vdroop will actually give you a slightly higher voltage than what is set in the BIOS.
I still think you are fine because you aren't going to be overclocking on an h77 mobo, but it is definitely confusing.

Could it be a bug, in my case? A bug that reverse the setting somehow?
post #6 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

LLC or load line calibration is a fancy way of saying Vdroop. Vdroop is a safety measure for your CPU.
Lets pretend that for all intensive purposes your CPU ran at 1.2v . Intel has set in temperature parameters to lower the voltage on the CPU when it gets too hot so that it won't over heat. Lets also pretend that you were running your CPU at max load and it gets above 50 degrees. The CPU will actually "drop" the voltage a tad to try and lower heat output. It will drop the voltage proportionally to the heat until it has reached a minimum value of CPU voltage, again, to try and prevent overheating. Now that may sound all well and good, but in reality it is completely useless because you only need to worry when your CPU hits 85C at max load, and quite frankly, you should have a after market heatsink that should be keeping your CPU WELL within it's thermal limits. Vdroop parameter temperatures start wayyyy before 85C. So vdroop can actually lower your volts to the point where it CAN cause instability at stock settings with a poor cooler *COUGH*intel stock cooler*COUGH* (although it is exceedingly rare).
Now what the LLC option does in particular is regulate the Vdroop. At 0% it is saying that Vdroop is completely off, and at 100%, it basically lets Vdroop do what ever it wants. So in essence when you have it at zero percent, you SHOULD see higher voltages, and what you are seeing is completely normal. If this build is a basic PC (meaning no overclocking) you can set the LLC to like 3 or something. I personally don't like vdroop running a muck on my voltages, but I also don't want the CPU to be running at 100% voltage the whole time (since that would shorten the life span of the CPU). So something in between 1 and 5 is a good choice for that option.
Forgive me for not writing a more scientific explanation, but just so you understand, what you are seeing on your PC is correct. 0-100% refers to the amount of vdroop, and not the CPU voltages directly. If you aren't going to overclock, leave vdroop at like 50-75%.
If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask. thumb.gif
Eh, Vdroop has nothing to do with temperatures. It's there to make sure the CPU isn't damaged by voltage spikes when going from idle to load and vice versa by keeping load voltage low. LLC isn't a fancy word for vdroop, LLC is what counters vdroop by raising load voltage.
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