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Am I missing something about Win 8? Alot of hype for what? - Page 8

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post #72 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

the main thing I'm pissed about is secure boot. no android on an RTM tablet? no Linux?

I've answered this before. It only applies to ARM devices and as far as I know all other tablet manufacturers are trying to stop people from booting other OS' on their devices. Besides why would you want linux on your tablet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Different is not better.
I'll agree that the code is more efficient, and thus from a programming standpoint you could in fact call it better. The integration of several hugely popular features that historically required third party software is also an improvement. Great!
These are just small parts of the overall OS though. Let's not be Apple Microsoft sugar coat the issue. A lot of things have been dumbed down or entirely removed due to being "unused"...
Several RDP and UNIX commands and switches were removed. MFU lists don't work properly. Dial up and some DSL connections are now gimped. Wireless ad-hoc networking is no longer possible without registry "hacks" and command line. BSOD is now pretty much worthless without a full dump. Touch input is always active, even if you have no touch enabled devices, and can cause issues with other input devices (wacom tablets). Device manager does not list all items (not limited to hidden items), and the command to unhide hidden items is no longer functional. Applications no longer have control over file protocol. UAC is now considerably more invasive. Windows Backup and Shadow Copy are replaced by the pretty much worthless "File History" feature. Several conflict prompts are no longer present - Windows silently picks the "best" option - which is often not the one you wanted. Network map is gone. While aesthetically pleasing and easier to read, there is a lot of info missing on the new task manager. Several NTFS features are no longer supported.You can no longer run with full privileges without actually running out of the local admin. I'm getting kinda bored of typing so I'll just stop here.
... Dunno bout you Microsoft, but a lot of people still use these features. Yeah, I can get around some of them, and I can live without others, but it does make my computing life just that much more frustrating / time consuming / expensive.
Perhaps I should remove the breaks from Steve Ballmer's Ford Fusion? Having seen the guy I would assume it's safe to say that is an unused feature - removing it will improve gas mileage. rolleyes.gif
Aaaannnyway, hope this satisfies your (and whoever else apparently asked?) sick desire for long boring lists. tongue.gif

hmm I'm lucky enough to have not seen a Win8 bsod yet, I disagree about UAC since the only time I ever see it is when I install something and I haven't used that other stuff you mentioned but if that's true I'm rather worried. Sorry to keep driving at you but this is how we learn. biggrin.gif What NTFS features no longer work? Also how do you know so much, when I look on the internet for "negative things about windows 8" I get the usual metro hate?
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post #73 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Image132 View Post

I've answered this before. It only applies to ARM devices and as far as I know all other tablet manufacturers are trying to stop people from booting other OS' on their devices. Besides why would you want linux on your tablet?
hmm I'm lucky enough to have not seen a Win8 bsod yet, I disagree about UAC since the only time I ever see it is when I install something and I haven't used that other stuff you mentioned but if that's true I'm rather worried. Sorry to keep driving at you but this is how we learn. biggrin.gif What NTFS features no longer work? Also how do you know so much, when I look on the internet for "negative things about windows 8" I get the usual metro hate?

NTFS savepoints and some other related APIs are gone.



Bootloaders are a big deal to a lot of people, even if you personally don't care. FYI, Android is linux. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has dual-booted their android devices into "real" linux on occasion. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from doing that, So I'ma assume tablet (and phone) manufacturers really aren't trying THAT hard to prevent it. Not like android is new or anything.

With windows itself now supporting ARM, the increasing popularity of ARM based mini-computers like the raspberry pi, and AMD, Intel, and Nvidia all working on integrating ARM into their current lineups, is it really that hard to imagine a world where ARM has a desktop/laptop presence? Do you really want to tell people with such a device that they are not allowed to run any other OS?

There are ways around it, so whatever, but the point is microsoft's attempt at locking the bootloader serves no purpose other than to attempt to remove the consumer's choice to run multiple operating systems freely. At the end of the day, its an anti-consumer tactic that shouldn't be supported regardless of your own personal usage patterns.



UAC might not be actively bothering you as much, but it's now much harder to actually remove, and it completely blocks file and directory access / changes even when "disabled". It's less of a constant but easily avoided annoyance and more of dormant herpes infection that you just cant shake and while it might not rear it's ugly head for months at a time, it will eventually block you where it counts. wink.gif Sooner or later, you will probably find out the hard way. Hopefully you're not the type to ragepunch your monitor.



Anyway, this information is fairly easy to obtain, you just need to know what you're looking for. It helps that I actually do use some of these features (in fact, rely on some) and thus knew what to look for in searches or ran into a roadblock when trying to actually use these features myself.

Like I said, I imagine most users won't actually notice the majority of the changes made in Windows 8. It's really a much more radical change than the "Windows 7 with a new GUI" that most people think it is, but mostly in areas of the OS that people never knew about to begin with.



Oh... and just in case anyone is wondering "yeah ok I can sorta see that now, but why should I care? If I never even needed to know about it before, what loss is not having it?", well, how exactly do you think all those nifty programs and "hacks" work that let you do cool stuff to windows work? You know, like "Ultimate Windows Tweaker" for instance. Those are just GUIs that make use of these hidden windows features which microsoft now sees as "unused" and "unnecessary".

Expect to see a lot less of these kinds of things from now on. The next "hybrid AMD physx" or "joyinmotion driver" may never see the light of day (not specifically these things, in fact both would sill be possible to create, I'm just trying to give you a relate-able example, cause lets face it, most people here are really just gamers).
Edited by Zero4549 - 11/10/12 at 1:49am
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post #74 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

NTFS savepoints and some other related APIs are gone.
Bootloaders are a big deal to a lot of people, even if you personally don't care. FYI, Android is linux. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has dual-booted their android devices into "real" linux on occasion. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from doing that, So I'ma assume tablet (and phone) manufacturers really aren't trying THAT hard to prevent it. Not like android is new or anything.
With windows itself now supporting ARM, the increasing popularity of ARM based mini-computers like the raspberry pi, and AMD, Intel, and Nvidia all working on integrating ARM into their current lineups, is it really that hard to imagine a world where ARM has a desktop/laptop presence? Do you really want to tell people with such a device that they are not allowed to run any other OS?
There are ways around it, so whatever, but the point is microsoft's attempt at locking the bootloader serves no purpose other than to attempt to remove the consumer's choice to run multiple operating systems freely. At the end of the day, its an anti-consumer tactic that shouldn't be supported regardless of your own personal usage patterns.
UAC might not be actively bothering you as much, but it's now much harder to actually remove, and it completely blocks file and directory access / changes even when "disabled". It's less of a constant but easily avoided annoyance and more of dormant herpes infection that you just cant shake and while it might not rear it's ugly head for months at a time, it will eventually block you where it counts. wink.gif Sooner or later, you will probably find out the hard way. Hopefully you're not the type to ragepunch your monitor.
Anyway, this information is fairly easy to obtain, you just need to know what you're looking for. It helps that I actually do use some of these features (in fact, rely on some) and thus knew what to look for in searches or ran into a roadblock when trying to actually use these features myself.
Like I said, I imagine most users won't actually notice the majority of the changes made in Windows 8. It's really a much more radical change than the "Windows 7 with a new GUI" that most people think it is, but mostly in areas of the OS that people never knew about to begin with.
Oh... and just in case anyone is wondering "yeah ok I can sorta see that now, but why should I care? If I never even needed to know about it before, what loss is not having it?", well, how exactly do you think all those nifty programs and "hacks" work that let you do cool stuff to windows work? You know, like "Ultimate Windows Tweaker" for instance. Those are just GUIs that make use of these hidden windows features which microsoft now sees as "unused" and "unnecessary".
Expect to see a lot less of these kinds of things from now on. The next "hybrid AMD physx" or "joyinmotion driver" may never see the light of day (not specifically these things, in fact both would sill be possible to create, I'm just trying to give you a relate-able example, cause lets face it, most people here are really just gamers).

Ah ok. I am a fan of windows 8 and as you say I don't really use those features but I do also consider myself an open minded person. I like having all the facts so that if someone asks me "Should I upgrade to windows 8?" I can give them a proper answer. You are the first person on this forum so far who has given me legitimate reasons why windows 8 is bad beyond the general hate/ignorance. So thank you for that. I mean that sincerely.

I am an avid gamer but I'm also studying to become a network engineer so I'm curious if these features are disabled in Sever 2013 as well?

If windows ever did a secure boot for x86 machines where you cannot turn it off I would boycott it, instantly. With the massive strides valve is making with steam on linux, with performance and compatibility, maybe it will finally get some proper traction now. However if you want to use Ubuntu and don't like not having a start bar it might be a problem with Unity :/
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post #75 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Image132 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

the main thing I'm pissed about is secure boot. no android on an RTM tablet? no Linux?

I've answered this before. It only applies to ARM devices and as far as I know all other tablet manufacturers are trying to stop people from booting other OS' on their devices. Besides why would you want linux on your tablet?

Oh, oh, I can answer this!


tongue.gif

Anyway, Android is Linux. That is why the above is possible. So...
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post #76 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

NTFS savepoints and some other related APIs are gone.
Bootloaders are a big deal to a lot of people, even if you personally don't care. FYI, Android is linux. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has dual-booted their android devices into "real" linux on occasion. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from doing that, So I'ma assume tablet (and phone) manufacturers really aren't trying THAT hard to prevent it. Not like android is new or anything.
With windows itself now supporting ARM, the increasing popularity of ARM based mini-computers like the raspberry pi, and AMD, Intel, and Nvidia all working on integrating ARM into their current lineups, is it really that hard to imagine a world where ARM has a desktop/laptop presence? Do you really want to tell people with such a device that they are not allowed to run any other OS?
There are ways around it, so whatever, but the point is microsoft's attempt at locking the bootloader serves no purpose other than to attempt to remove the consumer's choice to run multiple operating systems freely. At the end of the day, its an anti-consumer tactic that shouldn't be supported regardless of your own personal usage patterns.
UAC might not be actively bothering you as much, but it's now much harder to actually remove, and it completely blocks file and directory access / changes even when "disabled". It's less of a constant but easily avoided annoyance and more of dormant herpes infection that you just cant shake and while it might not rear it's ugly head for months at a time, it will eventually block you where it counts. wink.gif Sooner or later, you will probably find out the hard way. Hopefully you're not the type to ragepunch your monitor.
Anyway, this information is fairly easy to obtain, you just need to know what you're looking for. It helps that I actually do use some of these features (in fact, rely on some) and thus knew what to look for in searches or ran into a roadblock when trying to actually use these features myself.
Like I said, I imagine most users won't actually notice the majority of the changes made in Windows 8. It's really a much more radical change than the "Windows 7 with a new GUI" that most people think it is, but mostly in areas of the OS that people never knew about to begin with.
Oh... and just in case anyone is wondering "yeah ok I can sorta see that now, but why should I care? If I never even needed to know about it before, what loss is not having it?", well, how exactly do you think all those nifty programs and "hacks" work that let you do cool stuff to windows work? You know, like "Ultimate Windows Tweaker" for instance. Those are just GUIs that make use of these hidden windows features which microsoft now sees as "unused" and "unnecessary".
Expect to see a lot less of these kinds of things from now on. The next "hybrid AMD physx" or "joyinmotion driver" may never see the light of day (not specifically these things, in fact both would sill be possible to create, I'm just trying to give you a relate-able example, cause lets face it, most people here are really just gamers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Image132 View Post

Ah ok. I am a fan of windows 8 and as you say I don't really use those features but I do also consider myself an open minded person. I like having all the facts so that if someone asks me "Should I upgrade to windows 8?" I can give them a proper answer. You are the first person on this forum so far who has given me legitimate reasons why windows 8 is bad beyond the general hate/ignorance. So thank you for that. I mean that sincerely.
I am an avid gamer but I'm also studying to become a network engineer so I'm curious if these features are disabled in Sever 2013 as well?
If windows ever did a secure boot for x86 machines where you cannot turn it off I would boycott it, instantly. With the massive strides valve is making with steam on linux, with performance and compatibility, maybe it will finally get some proper traction now. However if you want to use Ubuntu and don't like not having a start bar it might be a problem with Unity :/

I agree. It's the first time I saw such a detailed explanation of the cons in Windows 8. This certainly makes a difference for some people.
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post #77 of 108
What I don't understand is how this is such a polarizing issue. You either use the OS and like it, or you don't use the OS and you stick with 7.
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post #78 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methos07 View Post

What I don't understand is how this is such a polarizing issue. You either use the OS and like it, or you don't use the OS and you stick with 7.

Because that's not the way technology works. You can't just "stick with something" forever. Try telling someone to stick with windows 98SE on a gaming rig because they also want proper admin support.

Sooner or later, people need to upgrade in order to stay alive in this industry, be it for work or for pleasure. No one wants to be forced into paying for an "upgrade" that leaves them with an inferior platform for their needs.

It's a thing of principle my friend. I can skip 8 sure. Probably even 9. But whatever comes after that, is going to be so far beyond 7 that not upgrading simply will not be an option. If MS continues on their current path, upgrading won't be an option either.

I'm all for progress, just so long as it is actually progress, and not just change to suit the fancy of some soulless mega corporation at the expense of it's users and the industry it is a part of.
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post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Image132 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

the main thing I'm pissed about is secure boot. no android on an RTM tablet? no Linux?

I've answered this before. It only applies to ARM devices and as far as I know all other tablet manufacturers are trying to stop people from booting other OS' on their devices. Besides why would you want linux on your tablet?

because both android and (normal) linux are WAY better

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


Oh, oh, I can answer this!


tongue.gif

Anyway, Android is Linux. That is why the above is possible. So...

android is a big java stack, the fact that it uses linux is kind of irreverent most of the time- except here, of course, where its great because you can chroot into it


ultimately, I looked forward to a flood of new tablets into the market only to be disappointed I was to be locked out android/linux
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post #80 of 108
I'm gutted they removed "Backup and Restore" mad.gif
But what can you do rolleyes.gif

Also, who was it that said they downloaded 32bit W8, but wanted 64bit headscratch.gif
Because I worked out how to get both smile.gif
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