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[TA]In a Race Between a Self-Driving Car and a Pro Race-Car Driver, Who Wins? - Page 4

post #31 of 161
Also, once the system is set, the computer won't need the driving wheel to drive the car. It can handle the car around corners much better by precision single wheel braking. Computers are much better at handling large data sets.
If anybody doubts they cannot change the playfield, just watch f1 92-93' seasons.
Imo, computers could drive cars all day long while drivers type sms messages and receive phone calls during transport which, pun intended, 50% do anyway. I have seen drivers that cannot take a right turn without crashing a parked car.
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post #32 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I think the computer could win if you give the ai team the same time a professional human driver spends practicing on the track.
There are a few steps to building a competitive AI:
Input and state model: teach the AI how to interpret it's accelerometer, camera, and vehicle status data to update a real time model of the car and environment. For example, use velocity, air temperature and pressure to predict downforce and drag.
Output and feedback: find an algorithm to correlate changes in available controls with resulting changes in the state model. For example, predict the change in torque from a change in throttle, clutch, or brake position.
Boundary cases: take the vehicle out of normal environmental constraints under controlled circumstances, to teach the AI how to recognize changes in traction or visibility and learn how much it is necessary to adjust it's output to maintain control. Refine the environmental model to give more confidence in pushing the car to the very edge of it's controllable envelope.
Learn from human experts: Look at the places humans outperform the AI, and figure out the underlying principle that allows that behavior.
Learn from AI advantages: Look at the places AI outperforms the humans, or places it hypothetically should have an advantage, and expand that advantage to it's limits.

I hear what you are saying,but you have to not only accurately predict millions of scenarios in microseconds,you have to have machinery that will execute it too.Maybe a long time from now,but no time soon.
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post #33 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

LOL!
They can't even match a human's speed of reaction in something as simple as a video game,what makes you think they can do it with a 2,500lb. vehicle?
The point of video game is for you to let win and feel good about yourself. And let me know when you will beat Q3 with nightmare bots wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I think the computer could win if you give the ai team the same time a professional human driver spends practicing on the track.
I'm pretty sure they can beat record time without anyone on track. It looks simple, waypoints + gps. On the other hand, this is not the case here. I doubt the the purpose of all this is to beat some racer, don't you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woundingchaney View Post

Not in the near future.
Have you seen BL2 AI? And that's just a game... We are far away from AI that was horribly stupid.

P.S.
Racing is an ART?
As much as I remember I have not ever seen McReam Loeb, Senna, Schumacher reffer to racing as an Art.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One#Cars_and_technology
I might be wrong here, but I like to believe that only failers like block say this.
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post #34 of 161
Oops, accidental post
 
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post #35 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

I hear what you are saying,but you have to not only accurately predict millions of scenarios in microseconds,you have to have machinery that will execute it too.Maybe a long time from now,but no time soon.
At this point I believe the software is the weak link. Computers have very fast reaction time compared to humans, even the very best humans have over 100milliseconds reaction time, and the computer can precompute it's decisions, you don't have to make the decision to brake at the exact instant you apply the brakes, you can determine the timing well beforehand, even on the previous lap. Twitch reaction times would only come into play if there are other drivers on the same track, which is a significantly harder problem. Passing someone is a question of whether that person makes a mistake that you are prepared to exploit. A good enough driver will never get passed by a perfect driver.
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post #36 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post

People said the same thing about chess. One of these days you'll be eating your words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge 
It's not like chess where there are a finite number of possibilities, and you have the luxury of planning out every possibility in advance.
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post #37 of 161
To measure the difference or actually understand the gap, a regular or even a never-been-in-a-raceway-before driver should have been included. That way you could relate the tech car vs regular person which actually should have been the goal.

Another interesting match would be, pro driver in an underpowered car like Golf GTI vs a ferrari self driving car biggrin.gif
Edited by Catscratch - 11/3/12 at 8:00am
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post #38 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

At this point I believe the software is the weak link. Computers have very fast reaction time compared to humans, even the very best humans have over 100milliseconds reaction time, and the computer can precompute it's decisions, you don't have to make the decision to brake at the exact instant you apply the brakes, you can determine the timing well beforehand, even on the previous lap. Twitch reaction times would only come into play if there are other drivers on the same track, which is a significantly harder problem. Passing someone is a question of whether that person makes a mistake that you are prepared to exploit. A good enough driver will never get passed by a perfect driver.

It is all in the software...the computer thinks faster, but only on "predetermined paths"...
Its only a matter of time for us to keep feeding them more and more.

If the pro driver would sit along and teach the team how he thinks - aka not what is the ideal line but how you "invent" the ideal line, sooner or later zi robot will catch up and/or surpass him, just like any human student. After one point of perfection, practice alone cannot make you better. You need the hints and tips to make progress leaps, and that certain intuition to push it a little bit more and be "one of the best" - aka those racing legends.
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post #39 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtolios View Post

It is all in the software...the computer thinks faster, but only on "predetermined paths"...
Its only a matter of time for us to keep feeding them more and more.
If the pro driver would sit along and teach the team how he thinks - aka not what is the ideal line but how you "invent" the ideal line, sooner or later zi robot will catch up and/or surpass him, just like any human student. After one point of perfection, practice alone cannot make you better. You need the hints and tips to make progress leaps, and that certain intuition to push it a little bit more and be "one of the best" - aka those racing legends.
I know, follow the quote chain back a bit.
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post #40 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post

People said the same thing about chess. One of these days you'll be eating your words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge 
It's not like chess where there are a finite number of possibilities, and you have the luxury of planning out every possibility in advance.
There is technically a finite number of possibilities in racing, although there is far, far more.
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