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post #101 of 220
I think the most important thing to remember is that almost any cooler on the market is within a few degrees of any other one. If you pick any of the newer 120mm or 140mm tower-style coolers and you'll be off to a good start. The biggest thing you can do to help your temperatures, however, is to rotate your current cooler. That's not an option, so rotating any decent modern cooler will be an upgrade. When I got my air cooler, I got the 212 because it's what was recommended and it was cheap. Always did great. Over my stock AMD cooler, it was phenomenal. I don't know if you'll get that dramatic of a temperature drop going from a good cooler in a bad orientation to a slightly better cooler in a bad orientation. Really, right now you're looking at a few degrees tops.

Now, as an engineer that is studying thermodynamics, heat flow, air flow, etc....I can tell you that heat transfer isn't a specific science. Especially saying that "more heat pipes means better" is not a statement that can be taken as fact. It's just not that simple. Testing is the only way to know for sure. It's much more important to have proper cooling surface area in terms of fins, and then how the heat pipes transfer heat into those cooling fins, and then how well your fan can assist in cooling....and that's not just a CFM thing. Laminar vs turbulent flow makes a difference, and how it transitions makes a difference. Research the testing, like you've been doing. Within a few degrees, it's how well you apply your TIM.

And on a TIM note, have you tried your current CPU/CPU Cooler combo with some TIM yet? That might be enough to solve the problem!


This is a good list to look at if you're still looking.
 
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post #102 of 220
Thread Starter 
Yeah I wasn't expecting a massive decrease in temperature, over the stock cooler my old CNPS 5X was amazing. Then I upgraded to the thors hammer and over the CNPS 5X it was slightly better. Mind you I will be twisting the orientation so that air flows over the DIMM slots, so it should go to the rear and help out my VRMs and northbridge. I also assumed because I have top fans it'll help twist the air through the fins better to the top panel.

And thanks that was really informative, so what you are saying is really the structure of how the heat will be transferred is more important? So a perfectly flat bottom with exposed fins will cool much better than a finely compact heatsink such as the stock cooler? Because the stock cooler is basically a lump of lard with thick fins tongue.gif I take it much thinner fins give better results, in the same way as skin on the body? The thinner and more exposed it is the more likely heat be transfer into a gas? Or am I reading this the wrong way around?

As for applying TIM its a thick material so I have always apply a thin layer so it fills in gaps which can trap air. I always twist the heatsink down onto the mount to flat out any air bubbles, is this the correct method in doing it?

And yeah I tried it today, it didn't make a massive difference to be honest. My chip overclocked still hovers near 58c on load. Mind, I am not sure how relevant this is, but after doing a stress test, if I shut down the computer my heatpipes and fins are basically stone cold. The only hot part is the plat at the bottom which I can just about touch, the rest is cold. I assumed it would be slightly warm at least?

Also thanks for that list, I remember frostytech doing those top charts, I forgot about that to be honest. I have ordered the Dark Knight Hawk Edition already so its nice to see its on the list
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post #103 of 220
Good points victorzamora.

My experience is going from something similar to 212. to the big 5-6-8 pipe cooler with massive fin area is more like 6-8c and sometimes even more. The thing is it takes lots of heat for them to show just how good they are. I had a i7 920 @ 4.0GHz @ 70c with a Noctua U12P. Changed from stock fans to TY-140 fans and dropped 9c. Couple months later changed to Phanteks TC14PE and temps dropped another 8c. Same fans as on U12P and even used same exhaust duct.

Like you say cooling is as much trial and error as it is science. A heat pipe 50% bigger than another of same basic design and material makeup will more than likely give a significant increase in performance... assuming it has similar cooling fin area. That said the way airflow gets around the pipes, the way fins are attached, amount of airflow and how consistent the it is across the entire area of cooler, etc. are all very important. (too many reviews don't give balanced tests with same fans) Even humidity at time of tests can make a difference.

And don't get me started about how case, GPU, and down flow cooler design often do nothing to keep hot and cold air separated.

I spent some time in racing doing R&D on air cooled Porsche and some Volkswagen engines. Some time doing airflow on heads and combustion chamber flow and burn pattern. I was the guy in the shop actually making it work. Have a degree but prefer practical application. Many of the designers and engineers have great minds and ideas but no common sense.

Appears you understand the physical side as well as the scientific side. thumb.gif
post #104 of 220
Thread Starter 
Wow that's a big temperature drop. Higher static pressure fans are the best for that, the higher the pressure the more it'll aid in removing that warm air. If you get a flimsy fan with say <1.50mmH2O the fans pretty much bouncing air into the front fins rather than moving through to the back.

I like the way frostytech do their testing though, they literally ramp up the heat. I like they also measure the flatness and smoothness of the plates. Some coolers like the one I have bought have a nice opening to allow fans to push air to the underlying heatpipes to aid in cooling, which is a nice touch. Though too many fins can be bad I would of thought? If the fins are too compact surely air cannot get through, so it acts as a kind of insulation because there is no where for the gas to escape? Or am I wrong in thinking this?

Good job we live in the UK then, ALWAYS cold and sharp here tongue.gif we have little humidity so if you want a nice OC, just open your windows and you're done tongue.gif

Case airflow is useful though because warm air expelled from components can be sucked out quickly. If you don't have any fans the warm air will just rise to the top gently. I tend to go for positive pressure airflow because I know it'll push hot air out. Problem is I don't have enough room for more intake fans, so my side vent acts as an opening for fresh air to flow in. Which isn't good. You can feel the air being brought in tongue.gif dust can get in unfortunately.

And awesome, thats cool, would love to have real experience with stuff like that biggrin.gif

This thread has now gone a bit scientific. useful for readers though, bar the other 9 pages tongue.gif
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post #105 of 220
Was just looking at Frosty's stats.
Cooler . . . 85w . 125w . 150w
DK-S1283 . 8.2c. 11.7c . 14.3c
TC14PE . . 8.5c . 11.3c . 14.4c

Cooler at 85w, hotter @125w and cooler @150w ???

AMD vs Intel chip similation but I'm finding it very hard to swallow

Also Frosty stats but with different results
TC14 7.9, 11.3, 14.0
DK . . 8.2, 13.7, 14.3

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2671&page=5

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2671&page=4

Edit: Oh no! Now you're using the funny faces. frown.gif
post #106 of 220
Thread Starter 
Maybe its like getting into a bath, cool when you step in, hot when you realise, then you get used to it biggrin.gif

Mind you a lot of reviews do that, give different recommendations for different chips. They say things like "this cooler is 10/10 for intel... but 8/10 for AMD". No idea how that works.

But those results are odd, how can there be two different readings. Though to be honest its pretty close according to frostytech tongue.gif must be something different about the chip sizes, because its a different mounting system, just maybe.
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post #107 of 220
There's a German lab that does heat testing on CPU coolers up t like 300w of heat. Very good to look at. Problem is I can't remember the site. frown.gif

Case airflow is critical to keeping components cool. Problem is most case and expecially GPU cooling/airflow design does not work very well at keeping the heated exhaust air from mixing with intake air... so components get intake air hotter than room temp.. and the harder the component work/build heat the hotter their intake air becomes.

Some GPU have 3 fans pulling air in the side and pushing it out at right angle in all directions to hit motherboard and case side and loop right around back into their intakes. doh.gif

Same goes for CPUcoolers using 140mm fans but case has a 120mm exhaust vent/fan (140mm fans move approx 30% more than 120mm fans) that only about 2/3rd of the cooler exhaust lines up with... so the other third of the hot exhaust turns down toward the GPU, circles back into GPU and back up to CPU cooler intake.
And CPU cooler fans usually are higher static pressure/CFM than case fans anyway.

Rising heat in case is usually offset by the air movement created by fans... except in dead air pockets.

I only have 3 intake fans but CPU cooler exhaust directly out of case.. no air mix. And case fan are same as cooler fans and run same rpm as cooler fans.
post #108 of 220
Thread Starter 
Up to 300W that would really test a cooler. Do you speak any German, could google it see if anything pops up lol

Yeah take my cooler for example, the design is so simple all it does is suck air onto the chip, so the rest of the heat is output on the other side of PCB or in a circular direction out through the fins. It does keep it cool, but most of that heat is being sucked straight up through my cooler.

And really thats how they work? That's pretty awful, they must assume more fans equal better cooling with no regard to the air inside the case. My old HD 5830 had a nice cooler on it, the reference heatsink, so basically the air is forced right out the back of the case, that worked. Though for example (old GPU coming up) my 7950GX2 was awful,the heatsink pushed the air right into the front of my case where my fan was,which means not only did my HDD get heated up so did my SB and controllers. Some designs are silly tongue.gif

I usually try to have an exhaust fan on the other side to try and get the warm air up and out of the case than to circle back in. Thats my problem at the moment, because of the orientation any fresh air coming in is instantly sucked up through the top. Any warm air at the bottom GPU and HDD is pulled right up through my CPU fan just because how its positioned.

You do have to paid quite a bit to get decent high static pressured fans for CPU mounting though unfortunately. Considering none came with my Thors Hammer mad.gif

I have dead zone at the lower left by my sound card, so although it heats my sound card and PSU up nothing else gets affected redface.gif need to get my case raised, my power supply isn't enjoying it down there
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post #109 of 220
webtranslator is my friend

Here it is
http://www.thelab.gr/heatsinks-coolers-watercooling-reviews/cpu-cooler-review-database-89014.html

Think it might have been Elohim who turned me on to it.

And guess what! your blacky knight is there 6.6c warmer than Phateks @ 117w biggrin.gif
post #110 of 220
Thread Starter 
Easy as pie biggrin.gif awesome you found it thank you! That's a really useful site.

And 6.6c? ph34r-smiley.gif

I should have gone with the Aegir! Though it does nicely hold up against the Matterhorn and Havik 140. Though your Phanteks has TWO fans, my DK has 1 biggrin.gif I would love to see the results with dual fans.

My Knight doesn't do too badly mind, I was expecting it to be at the bottom then!

How much did you Phanteks cost you by the way?
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