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Help Me Argue With Myself

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I currently have a pair of MartinLogan Motion 4 bookshelf speakers matched with a MartinLogan Dynamo 300 sub. I'm running them through a Harman Kardon HK 3490 receiver.

I love my receiver, and I love my speakers. The only problem is that the 3490 doesn't have any crossover settings. The Motion 4's have fantastic treble range, but I don't feel like they're getting the headroom they deserve, since they're trying to play full-range. That, and I feel like there is probably some overlap happening, and it's difficult for me to correct that.

My question for you guys would be this:

Would it be better for me to run [receiver>sub>speakers] and use the sub's crossover/amp, or replace my receiver with one that has crossover settings? Or should I just leave it as is?

Again, I love the sound of my HK, so I really only want a solution that's going to be equal or better to what I have now.

Thanks, guys!
    
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post #2 of 11
So, if I understand you correctly, you only need to control the crossover to your subwoofer correct?


You dont need to go to your sub first if you are using a sub out from the receiver. If the amp in the receiver is set to "bypass" change it to "Variable" and then set the "Low Pass Filter" to where you want, which will probably be in the 80 range.

Hope that helps.
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madbrayniak View Post

You dont need to go to your sub first if you are using a sub out from the receiver. If the amp in the receiver is set to "bypass" change it to "Variable" and then set the "Low Pass Filter" to where you want, which will probably be in the 80 range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky-Bunker View Post

The only problem is that the 3490 doesn't have any crossover settings.

Anyway, after doing some experimenting, I've discovered that even if I were to apply an HPF to the speakers, it wouldn't make any real difference to the sound.

I was, however, able to determine that there's a pretty nasty 50hz boom in the room. So that's where I'm at now.
    
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post #4 of 11
Can't tell from the manual but maybe your speakers already have some sort of HPF built in so the sub frequencies don't really get in there. I'd try to avoid daisy chaining them via receiver>sub>speakers but that's just a gut feeling.

Anyway, the sub placement can be tricky. A good method I always try is to place your sub on a stool where you usually sit (about head-high), turn up the music and crawl the floor. Once you find a spot where the bass sounds sweet, place your sub there.

Sounds stupid but so far has worked biggrin.gif
   
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosi View Post

Can't tell from the manual but maybe your speakers already have some sort of HPF built in so the sub frequencies don't really get in there. I'd try to avoid daisy chaining them via receiver>sub>speakers but that's just a gut feeling.

Anyway, the sub placement can be tricky. A good method I always try is to place your sub on a stool where you usually sit (about head-high), turn up the music and crawl the floor. Once you find a spot where the bass sounds sweet, place your sub there.

Sounds stupid but so far has worked biggrin.gif

Yeah. I've heard good things about using that method, but my room is so small and crowded that it's hard for me to put it anywhere other than where it is. redface.gif
    
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post #6 of 11
OOPS! I had a typo in the last post I meant to say amp in the SUB...set the subs amp to variable.

I looked up the manual to your sub before my last posting.

The low pass filter is the crossover.....You are telling your sub to only make sound bellow said frequency....

The problem would be telling your mains to only make noise above that frequency aka a High Pass Filter....this could also be the reason why you are getting a 50hz bump in bass as the mains are cut off here so you can also try and set the low pass on your sub to about 50hz area...

Another option would be to set your speakers to "small" in the receiver if that is an option rather than "large" as when you set them to "large" the receiver will try and run them full range.

Doing a quick glance through the manual I didnt see any of those options but I didnt go through it very thoroughly.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Yeah. The receiver is very basic. No pretty options. Just good sound.

I'll try setting the LPF down to around 50hz, but I'm not too confident it's going to fix the sound. We'll see what happens.
    
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post #8 of 11
Allrighty, crawling doesn't make that much sense then. smile.gif You could try just to see if the one and only spot is kinda bad but if your room is crowded and not really rectangular I'd kind of doubt that. Rectangular rooms are pretty bad to set up and if the room is square it is supposed to be even worse.

Some soundcards offer to already split the signal to LFE and speakers on the fly. I can't say if the card on your Sabertooth can do that but I kind of doubt it.

If nothing helps, you could try to set up an equalizer to tone the booming frequency down a bit. After all that's what all those nifty room correction capable receivers do too. Almost every soundcard should be able to do that by now. It wouldn't help with external sources as CD players and stuff though.

In theory, measurement should also be possible with a regular microphone and some piece of software for display but right now I can't think of any. I could use that myself though. Oh well, just a random thought from the void between my ears redface.gif

*edit*
I had a quick read on the LPF in the manual of your sub. You probably already know but if you have hooked it like rig->receiver(LFE out)->sub(LFE in) that LPF knob is basically disabled and the sub just outputs everything that's incoming. You'd need to hook it up via the line level inputs.
Edited by mosi - 11/6/12 at 1:31pm
   
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post #9 of 11
arent there pills to help you when you start arguing with yourself lol tongue.gif
    
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post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosi View Post

*edit*
I had a quick read on the LPF in the manual of your sub. You probably already know but if you have hooked it like rig->receiver(LFE out)->sub(LFE in) that LPF knob is basically disabled and the sub just outputs everything that's incoming. You'd need to hook it up via the line level inputs.

I actually have it connected in stereo via line level. Using both of the sub outs on the receiver. It opens up the ability to use the LPF.

And the room is square, with openings in the front left and rear left corner. So I know my sound isn't as symmetrical as it should be, either. My plan is to turn the room on its side and cause those openings to be in the back. It would place the viewing position a noticeable amount closer to the TV, but would also open up the back wall so my head isn't touching it anymore.

Instead of spending money on a house with a bigger livingroom, I spend it on better things to put in that livingroom. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy View Post

arent there pills to help you when you start arguing with yourself lol tongue.gif

Yeah, I suppose so. tongue.gif
    
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