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[TPU] No New FX Processor From AMD in 2013 - Page 15

post #141 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

If you can't be bothered to explain why you're right and are seemingly ignoring how uncommon it is for a game to fully load a single core with core affinity at default settings then we might as well agree to disagree and get this thread back on topic

No I can't be bothered because as you've shown though out this thread you do not know a lot about these finer, more technical details, so with respect, explaining things to you would be a waste of time.

If you are curious as wish to learn then as I said, we'll continue via PM...

Fair enough, PM me then.
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post #142 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Here CPU is not a bottleneck, this is Hyper Transport (HT) bus which is real bottleneck.

Default HT frequency support is up to 2000MHz only in All AMD chipsets.
This means:
2000MHz x 2 Transfers per clock cycles x 16 bits per link = 64000MBits/s or 8000MegaBytes/s or 7.81GigaBytes/s
All this means MAXIMUM GPU to CPU data transfer rate rate in an AMD Phenom II based system is 7.81GB/s (Unidirectional)
Here is a Sandra benchmark by Tomshardware which shows GPU to Host (CPU) bandwidth of Radeon HD 7970.

This shows HD 7970 can send data to CPU at a rate of 9.6GB/s with Intel Sandy Bridge-E (PCIe 3.0) platform, While our current AMD chipset has a maximum GPU to CPU (And vice versa) bandwidth of 7.81GB/s only. Even this is not the maximum theoretical transfer rate because there must also be a little overhead which reduces this bandwidth to near ~7GB/s. We should not forget also I/O devices consumes bandwidth from this.
Theoretically even a single HD 7970/GTX 670/GTX 680 can not run at its peak performance with current AMD chipsets.

However HT frequency can be overclocked, but I don't have such high end GPU to tests if it still bottlenecks or not. It would be very helpful for us if someone please do some test with default and overclocked hypertransport speed with 7970/670/680 in certain game exactly where GPU is not being utilized at its max in single GPU configuration.

I can do that, but what game?

One thing is for sure, i dont have bottleneck in my 670 (1363 core/7300 ram ) no at 1080p at least

these are my games actually , add bf3, i don't have the icon on desktop



All runing 60+fps without problems, except metro with dof, witcher 2 with ubersampling and Skyrim, too many mods (150+)
post #143 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtyr View Post

I can do that, but what game?
One thing is for sure, i dont have bottleneck in my 670 (1363 core/7300 ram ) no at 1080p at least
these are my games actually , add bf3, i don't have the icon on desktop

All runing 60+fps without problems, except metro with dof, witcher 2 with ubersampling and Skyrim, too many mods (150+)

When did I say that you would not be able to play games smoothly ?
I never said that.
Actually you did not understand what I had been trying to make you all understand. no one understood it.
Even there is a bottleneck doesn't mean that you can't have smooth frame rates.

That was all technically described to show that AMD Platforms now have started to show its age to new generation graphic processing units.
Did you see Sandy Bridge-E CPU taking data from GPU at a rate of 9.6 GB/sec through PCIe 3.0 bus.
^ This data rate can never be achieved by any current AMD CPU / Chipset. (you can test by yourself, all you need is latest SiSoftware Sandra benchmark software and run some test)
This just technically proves you actually cannot run this type of high end GPU at its verge.

One of my friend has almost reached to 11 GB/s (GPU to CPU data transfer) with Asus GTX 670 on his PCIe 3.0 SB-E i7 3820 system.
And if that GTX 670 can transfer data at a rate of 11 GB/s through PCIe 3.0 then We AMD users have already failed to get the GPU to transfer data at a rate of 11GB/s to the CPU through our PCIe 2.0 x16. Because as you should know that PCIe 2.0 at x16 has maximum data rate of 8 GB/s rolleyes.gif
This theoretically does prove GTX 670 will be underperformed by ~35% when they are in PCIe 2.0 x16 slots.

Well we all know in real world gaming no one is gonna see the max or average fps as long as the gameplay is smooth smile.gif
Though again I am repeating that theoretically we do have some bottleneck in our system.
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post #144 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

that's getting into complicated territory which to be honest, I can't be bothered
That is blatantly obvious.
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post #145 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

When did I say that you would not be able to play games smoothly ?
I never said that.
Actually you did not understand what I had been trying to make you all understand. no one understood it.

They sure didn't. All I'm saying is that I can run multiplayer bf3 eyefinity full spec except FXAA on my phenom II 965 smooth enough not to warrant a processor upgrade. Usually between 45-80fps depending on map and number of players. In that sense only, I'm am not being bottlenecked. If I turn down quality, FPS goes up. And I think we all can agree that it takes more CPU muscle too drive eyefinity resolutions, which for me doesn't seem to be an issue.
post #146 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post


Actually you did not understand what I had been trying to make you all understand. no one understood it.
Even there is a bottleneck doesn't mean that you can't have smooth frame rates.
That was all technically described to show that AMD Platforms now have started to show its age to new generation graphic processing units.

thumb.gif
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post #147 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Here CPU is not a bottleneck, this is Hyper Transport (HT) bus which is real bottleneck.

Default HT frequency support is up to 2000MHz only in All AMD chipsets.
This means:
2000MHz x 2 Transfers per clock cycles x 16 bits per link = 64000MBits/s or 8000MegaBytes/s or 7.81GigaBytes/s
All this means MAXIMUM GPU to CPU data transfer rate rate in an AMD Phenom II based system is 7.81GB/s (Unidirectional)
Here is a Sandra benchmark by Tomshardware which shows GPU to Host (CPU) bandwidth of Radeon HD 7970.

This shows HD 7970 can send data to CPU at a rate of 9.6GB/s with Intel Sandy Bridge-E (PCIe 3.0) platform, While our current AMD chipset has a maximum GPU to CPU (And vice versa) bandwidth of 7.81GB/s only. Even this is not the maximum theoretical transfer rate because there must also be a little overhead which reduces this bandwidth to near ~7GB/s. We should not forget also I/O devices consumes bandwidth from this.
Theoretically even a single HD 7970/GTX 670/GTX 680 can not run at its peak performance with current AMD chipsets.

However HT frequency can be overclocked, but I don't have such high end GPU to tests if it still bottlenecks or not. It would be very helpful for us if someone please do some test with default and overclocked hypertransport speed with 7970/670/680 in certain game exactly where GPU is not being utilized at its max in single GPU configuration.

I remember getting more fps with 3200mhz hyper transport with crossfire 5870 2gbs that was on a phenom II x6.
well having all the IO in their must be taking a huge toll then.
    
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post #148 of 158
Quote:
Good, I'm tired of buying a CPU and then 6 months later they make new one 5-10% better than that.

Look at the 1950-60s marketing with wings and turbines on cars. It all started with that, little upgrades that make the consumer update their product.

Holding back technology has always been the name of the game when it came to retail based products.
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post #149 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

When did I say that you would not be able to play games smoothly ?
I never said that.
Actually you did not understand what I had been trying to make you all understand. no one understood it.
Even there is a bottleneck doesn't mean that you can't have smooth frame rates.
That was all technically described to show that AMD Platforms now have started to show its age to new generation graphic processing units.
Did you see Sandy Bridge-E CPU taking data from GPU at a rate of 9.6 GB/sec through PCIe 3.0 bus.
^ This data rate can never be achieved by any current AMD CPU / Chipset. (you can test by yourself, all you need is latest SiSoftware Sandra benchmark software and run some test)
This just technically proves you actually cannot run this type of high end GPU at its verge.
One of my friend has almost reached to 11 GB/s (GPU to CPU data transfer) with Asus GTX 670 on his PCIe 3.0 SB-E i7 3820 system.
And if that GTX 670 can transfer data at a rate of 11 GB/s through PCIe 3.0 then We AMD users have already failed to get the GPU to transfer data at a rate of 11GB/s to the CPU through our PCIe 2.0 x16. Because as you should know that PCIe 2.0 at x16 has maximum data rate of 8 GB/s rolleyes.gif
This theoretically does prove GTX 670 will be underperformed by ~35% when they are in PCIe 2.0 x16 slots.
Well we all know in real world gaming no one is gonna see the max or average fps as long as the gameplay is smooth smile.gif
Though again I am repeating that theoretically we do have some bottleneck in our system.



I don't know if or how much better PCI 3.0 is, although I read that the difference was a few frames, far from being 35% better . and yes now i understood you, maybe your are right and will be a bottleneck but not now, and not in actual cards


What i wanted to say is that one AMD CPU can run a modern GPU to its limits.

Spinejam rig I7 2600K@4,8 ghz ASUS GTX 670 DCU II TOP



Mine, Phenom II x6@ 4,2 GHZ ASUS GTX 670 DCU II TOP




http://www.overclock.net/t/1259425/asus-670-directcu-ii-top/2150#post_17962408


These figures are obtained with a generous OC on the 670, and are far from normal on 670 .



One thing, not trying to say that a phenom II/FX is better or equal to a I7, just that is powerful enough to maxed out a powerful GPU, at least when is only one and is overclocked properly.

I'm really interested in knowing about the SLI, if it is a CPU problem, if it is a chipset problem, rr if the problem is to connect two cards,because I was thinking of buying another 670.

I want to see if I try a 690 and with that would come out of doubt, but of course not easy even being my friend,

Sorry for my english.
Edited by Ashtyr - 11/7/12 at 8:16am
post #150 of 158
Quote:
that's getting into complicated territory which to be honest, I can't be bothered

lol

Thanks for the contribution man! What a helpful member you are.
    
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