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File size and queue depth in relation to gaming

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
You always hear about 4k read speed being the most relevant stat to look at when shopping around for SSD when it comes to real perceivable gains. This will influence general Windows or OS use the most.

What I'm wondering is whether or not this applies to things dynamically loading in as you walk around and turn in MMOs, and what kind of queue depth is obtained during this process. Would 4k-64 speeds be a more relevant stat to look at, or is single-threaded 4k the go-to stat even for this?

Neither on my 2-year-old SSD saturate SATA 2, and only 4k-64 on the fastest drives these days saturate it. I'm pretty sure I would notice a difference either way, but I just want to make sure 4k is even the thing I should be looking at in that specific situation. If sequential is more appropriate, then I'm already saturating. I'm content with my current speeds for everything else.
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post #2 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

What I'm wondering is whether or not this applies to things dynamically loading in as you walk around and turn in MMOs, and what kind of queue depth is obtained during this process. Would 4k-64 speeds be a more relevant stat to look at, or is single-threaded 4k the go-to stat even for this?

Neither on my 2-year-old SSD saturate SATA 2, and only 4k-64 on the fastest drives these days saturate it. I'm pretty sure I would notice a difference either way, but I just want to make sure 4k is even the thing I should be looking at in that specific situation. If sequential is more appropriate, then I'm already saturating. I'm content with my current speeds for everything else.

Meh, you're unlikely hit a queue depth of 64 with normal PC usage (including gaming). Tom's Hardware profiled storage access of a bunch of games including WoW:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-gaming-performance,2991.html
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post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Wow, that's excellent and very telling info. I didn't come across that review during my Googling earlier. I found this especially interesting for Cataclysm during gameplay.

Quote:
I/O Trends:
  • 82% of all operations are sequential
  • 70% of all operations occur at a queue depth of one
  • 38% 4 KB, 28% 128 KB, 9% 16 KB, 8% 8 KB

So queue depth isn't a factor, and 82% is actually sequential. 4KB random read doesn't seem all that relevant, since only a third was even 4KB, and most of it was sequential.

I'll have to read more about how the testing was done to see if I can do the same thing on my own with other games. I have a feeling GW2 loads in more textures than WoW, and they're obviously higher res. But with only a few megabytes read over the course of over 5 minutes, it isn't looking like I would see any perceptible difference from an upgrade.

People get so wrapped up in numbers and IOPS, they don't stop to think about whether or not it actually matters in how they use their computer.

This is also another good read if you haven't read it yet.

http://recoverymonkey.org/2012/07/26/an-explanation-of-iops-and-latency/
Edited by Kaldari - 11/8/12 at 8:59pm
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post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Wow, that's excellent and very telling info. I didn't come across that review during my Googling earlier. I found this especially interesting for Cataclysm during gameplay.

So queue depth isn't a factor, and 82% is actually sequential. 4KB random read doesn't seem all that relevant, since only a third was even 4KB, and most of it was sequential.

I'll have to read more about how the testing was done to see if I can do the same thing on my own with other games. I have a feeling GW2 loads in more textures than WoW, and they're obviously higher res. But with only a few megabytes read over the course of over 5 minutes, it isn't looking like I would see any perceptible difference from an upgrade.

People get so wrapped up in numbers and IOPS, they don't stop to think about whether or not it actually matters in how they use their computer.

This is also another good read if you haven't read it yet.

http://recoverymonkey.org/2012/07/26/an-explanation-of-iops-and-latency/

Just a comment, 4K random speed is usually in the same ballpark as 4K sequential speed. Just because it says "sequential" doesn't mean you'll get the same sequential speed during gameplay that AS SSD gives you. Block size matters and AS SSD measures sequential performance at 16MB block size. Smaller block sizes tend to be slower. For sequential speeds at different block sizes, you'd want to look at results from ATTO.
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post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
I may be completely wrong here, but, when it lists transfer size as number of sectors, am I right in assuming that I should multiply each number by 4 to get the total amount transferred per stat since NTFS is typically split up into 4KB sectors?
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post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

I may be completely wrong here, but, when it lists transfer size as number of sectors, am I right in assuming that I should multiply each number by 4 to get the total amount transferred per stat since NTFS is typically split up into 4KB sectors?

I don't think that's quite what they're referring to in the graphs. Based on their summary, (38% 4 KB, 28% 128 KB, 9% 16 KB, 8% 8 KB), I think they're going by the "physical" sector size of 512 bytes (old HDD sector size).
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post #7 of 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

I don't think that's quite what they're referring to in the graphs. Based on their summary, (38% 4 KB, 28% 128 KB, 9% 16 KB, 8% 8 KB), I think they're going by the "physical" sector size of 512 bytes (old HDD sector size).

Well I was going to get elbows deep in all of this, but, before I invest all that time trying to figure out whether or not I would see a difference updating from one SSD to another, perhaps you could just answer the question outright for me since you seem to be pretty knowledgeable.

Only taking real-time texture loading into account, meaning I don't care about map pre-loading or anything like that, do you think I would see a difference between my Intel G2 and a Sammy 840 Pro over SATA 2? The G2 has done well with most games out there, but GW2 seems to hang a bit as I walk around and turn with it as new things load in constantly.

I'm also looking forward to a little extra space, going from 160GB to 256GB, but I'm not too worried about upgrading if it's mainly for the space alone.
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post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Well I was going to get elbows deep in all of this, but, before I invest all that time trying to figure out whether or not I would see a difference updating from one SSD to another, perhaps you could just answer the question outright for me since you seem to be pretty knowledgeable.

Only taking real-time texture loading into account, meaning I don't care about map pre-loading or anything like that, do you think I would see a difference between my Intel G2 and a Sammy 840 Pro over SATA 2? The G2 has done well with most games out there, but GW2 seems to hang a bit as I walk around and turn with it as new things load in constantly.

I'm also looking forward to a little extra space, going from 160GB to 256GB, but I'm not too worried about upgrading if it's mainly for the space alone.

Sorry, I don't game much nowadays and I don't play GW2 so can't answer your question definitively. My guess, is yes but you might want to try if it's something you might be able to fix without spending money (e.g. secure erase, etc). Just confirming, your pagefile and cache/temp folders are on the SSD, right?
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post #9 of 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Sorry, I don't game much nowadays and I don't play GW2 so can't answer your question definitively. My guess, is yes but you might want to try if it's something you might be able to fix without spending money (e.g. secure erase, etc). Just confirming, your pagefile and cache/temp folders are on the SSD, right?

Yes.
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