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Enhance pointer precision in Windows, On or Off? - Page 4

post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Here's the final solutions and answer to all your problems. The MarkC Windows Mouse Fix. Now updated for Windows 10.
http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html

There is hidden acceleration in Windows that cannot be turned off without (perfectly safe) registry hacks. What you are probably feeling is windows messing around with acceleration when told not to. This will fix that, and if you don't like it for any reason you can revert it without issues.

thumb.gif
I have used this MarkC fix for a long time too, but I still see a difference. Rawinput and EPP ON = precision and more accuracy and rawinput ON and EPP OFF = seems inconsistent and feels like moving your cursor/mouse on ice. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it, but there certainly is a difference .

Also I'm using Windows 7 (actually quite fresh as I reinstalled it 2 weeks ago, after getting tired of Windows 10 bull crap)
post #32 of 38
drivers > windows 7 EPP > good games > bad games
Source engine mouse acceleration is broken if your framerate varys.

AFAIK Quake Live is the one popular-ish FPS without broken mouse acceleration. But my breadth of knowledge of shooters outside of quake and source engine is few and far between. Even then it works strangely because of bundles of mouse inputs being of different sizes from frame to frame, unless you have exactly 500, 333, 250, etc FPS (integer numbers of 1000hz polls)



This applies to all ingame acceleration that doesn't count the number of actual mouse counts in a given frame. Even if it does delta time on the inputs that it does use, that only keeps wildly different framerates like 62fps and 250fps from being significantly different. It doesn't keep the marginal errors in check because you still have differently sized bundles from frame to frame. Of course this is less and less of a problem as you're further away from the "perfect" framerates like 500fps, but at like 502fps you expect to have two stronger frames of mouse movement per second with a perfect 1000hz mouse.

Yet when you're further away from "perfect" framerates, like at 750fps, the acceleration curve is slightly different than it should be, despite that. Basically, if the game only implements delta time for mouse acceleration, you have a choice between being accurate to the settings, versus stuttering. Fortunately, if you have a very low framerate like 45fps, the difference from frame to frame starts becoming negligible.

And this isn't yet even as far as the fact that some mice have unstable polling and occasionally bundle pairs of 1000hz polls into a single 500hz poll. For that reason I recommend anyone who doesn't know how their USB drivers operate under CPU load to use 500hz and either the quake live style mouse acceleration driver for acceleration or EPP, if they're going to use mouse acceleration.

Of course, if you don't want mouse acceleration, then either disable EPP or use raw input. For games that don't support raw input, and which enable EPP themselves because they're buggy, that's the one case that MarkC is for.
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiffle View Post

I have been playing for 4 years without EPP on. And the speed slider has always been in the middle for me. Just seems that I can do so much better with EPP on. Although...shouldn't raw input ignore even EPP? I just see that I can make much more precise movements with EPP on. So far haven't really noticed anything bad about it.

What do you mean by "the strength of it" ?

Pointer acceleration usually should not make you more accurate, it sounds like you are just too used to it and it may be that with the EPP you are making more mouse movements so you could disable EPP and maybe increase the sensitivity. Raw input mode bypasses software acceleration, so in theory that shouldn't be effecting anything. I do not use windows for FPS gaming and I usually turn acceleration off completely, so I can not tell you why that might be but it could be placebo.

I'm not entirely sure how windows does it's acceleration but on my system there are different modes available, some of which are consistent and are called 'constant acceleration', or even 'constant deceleration', and it's very configurable so it might be that you can actually improve somehow with different acceleration types.

Most people turn off these features because they don't want anything to interfere with their mousing, if you can definately track this to an improvement for you then leave it on, but it's better to be able to know exactly why it's helping, other than that you could turn it off and adjust the sensitivity accordingly.

There are also features like 'smooth mouse' in games which may help at first with tracking, due to it adding extra frames to the mouse movement, but I do not trust these features to get it right either.
Edited by etplayer - 9/26/15 at 4:53pm
post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by etplayer View Post

Pointer acceleration usually should not make you more accurate, it sounds like you are just too used to it and it may be that with the EPP you are making more mouse movements so you could disable EPP and maybe increase the sensitivity. Raw input mode bypasses software acceleration, so in theory that shouldn't be effecting anything. I do not use windows for FPS gaming and I usually turn acceleration off completely, so I can not tell you why that might be but it could be placebo.

I'm not entirely sure how windows does it's acceleration but on my system there are different modes available, some of which are consistent and are called 'constant acceleration', or even 'constant deceleration', and it's very configurable so it might be that you can actually improve somehow with different acceleration types.

Most people turn off these features because they don't want anything to interfere with their mousing, if you can definately track this to an improvement for you then leave it on, but it's better to be able to know exactly why it's helping, other than that you could turn it off and adjust the sensitivity accordingly.

There are also features like 'smooth mouse' in games which may help at first with tracking, due to it adding extra frames to the mouse movement, but I do not trust these features to get it right either.
I think faster sensitivity might actually make it worse for me. When EPP is ON I have much more smoother and accurate experience. But when I turn it OFF it feels like my cursor is sliding on ice .
post #35 of 38
With EPP on for me the cursor is so slow and feels like im dragging it in mud.
The cursor is smoother yes, but the feel is so artificial compared to off where you can feel the rawness of the cursor.

EPP on feels like a million smoothing is on smile.gif
post #36 of 38
some mice are just so bad that EPP is likely to make cursor movement better.
the wireless laser mouse that my brother uses is one example. i turned EPP off, only to find i WANTED it to be on. (it's an old logitech model that came with a cheap keyboard+mouse combo.)

anyway, being used to something is probably the biggest factor.
unless your mouse is total crap, you want it off. just get used to it even if it takes you days or weeks.
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

some mice are just so bad that EPP is likely to make cursor movement better.
the wireless laser mouse that my brother uses is one example. i turned EPP off, only to find i WANTED it to be on. (it's an old logitech model that came with a cheap keyboard+mouse combo.)

anyway, being used to something is probably the biggest factor.
unless your mouse is total crap, you want it off. just get used to it even if it takes you days or weeks.
Yeah I used to play around 3+ years with EPP off. Currently using Zowie EC1-A until I get my Zowie ZA12 . So I don't think it's total crap mouse. It's just weird that there's such big difference between it being off and on .
post #38 of 38
There's no difference with raw input on. If you want to you can create a custom MarkC accel curve and make it extremely obvious and unmistakable.
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