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VelociRaptor 600GB vs Red 2TB

post #1 of 12
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Bought a couple of laptops so the plan for 2x WD VelociRaptor 1TB in RAID-1 for use as back-up drive is shot. Budget's been reduced quite a bit so now I'm considering either of the following (will still buy 2 for RAID-1):

Western Digital VelociRaptor 600GB WD6000HLHX, $100
Western Digital Red 2TB WD20EFRX, $110

Primary purpose is for backing up data stored on a 400GiB RAID-0 array (2x Samsung 830 256GB with 15% OP). I'll be dealing with large files so mostly, I'm after fast sequential writes. Was just looking at some Tom's Hardware reviews and the 600GB VelociRaptor has max/ave/min sequential speeds (in MB/s) of 155/130/100 while the 2TB Red's is 150/110/65. I'm leaning towards the WD Red since it's cooler running and uses less power, and from SPCR's review, appears to be quieter than the VelociRaptors.

Do you guys think if I short stroke the Red to around 500GiB or so, it'll be able to more or less match the VelociRaptor's average and minimum sequential performance?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Bought a couple of laptops so the plan for 2x WD VelociRaptor 1TB in RAID-1 for use as back-up drive is shot. Budget's been reduced quite a bit so now I'm considering either of the following (will still buy 2 for RAID-1):

Western Digital VelociRaptor 600GB WD6000HLHX, $100
Western Digital Red 2TB WD20EFRX, $110

Primary purpose is for backing up data stored on a 400GiB RAID-0 array (2x Samsung 830 256GB with 15% OP). I'll be dealing with large files so mostly, I'm after fast sequential writes. Was just looking at some Tom's Hardware reviews and the 600GB VelociRaptor has max/ave/min sequential speeds (in MB/s) of 155/130/100 while the 2TB Red's is 150/110/65. I'm leaning towards the WD Red since it's cooler running and uses less power, and from SPCR's review, appears to be quieter than the VelociRaptors.

Do you guys think if I short stroke the Red to around 500GiB or so, it'll be able to more or less match the VelociRaptor's average and minimum sequential performance?

Thanks!

Hi, You could just look at the benchmark from hdtune and look at just the first half of the benchmark not the second half. That would be exactly the area that you keep if you short stroked it by 50%.

I would short stroke it where it really begins to fall off. So look at the hdtune benchmark and when it starts to drop bad then short stroke it. Also short stroking does keep the heads from moving into that area so the more it is short stroked the better your access times are.

The thing is that if this is going into your computer then maybe you should just get a WD Black. Also the Velociraptors don't get hot. At least mine has never gotten hot. The 7200RPM Samsung 1TB I have is smoking hot.

What is on your SSD raid array? Because as long as it is installation stuff only like OS games etc you don't need to back it up. I make sure nothing that is important is on my SSD not because of safety reason but because the stuff that is important like documents, music, video, pictures and saves do not need to be super fast.

Just some food for thought. But anyways you are looking to short stroke a 1tb red to 500GB? Why not just get 2 used 600GB Velociraptors.

OH I misunderstood something you want to short stroke a 2TB Red to 500... I highly doubt that is necisarry again like I said look at the HDTUNE benchmark. It probably doesn't fall off more than 20% until it's well over half full.
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post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Hi, You could just look at the benchmark from hdtune and look at just the first half of the benchmark not the second half. That would be exactly the area that you keep if you short stroked it by 50%.

HDTach or HDTune benches for the WD20EFRX were actually the first thing I searched for but so far, I haven't found any.


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I would short stroke it where it really begins to fall off. So look at the hdtune benchmark and when it starts to drop bad then short stroke it. Also short stroking does keep the heads from moving into that area so the more it is short stroked the better your access times are.

I won't actually short stroke it via LBA mod or anything. Just planning to create a partition before performance drops off. That way, I can always use the rest of the drive for storage if needed. As you mentioned, short stroking would also have the effect of reducing access times thereby increasing random performance. Not that that'll matter much since I'll have SSDs in the system anyway and likely anything performance sensitive will be located on the SSDs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

The thing is that if this is going into your computer then maybe you should just get a WD Black. Also the Velociraptors don't get hot. At least mine has never gotten hot. The 7200RPM Samsung 1TB I have is smoking hot.

More interested in quiet. The 300GB and 600GB VelociRaptors got fairly favorable reviews on SPCR for being relatively quiet and cool running. Apparently, the 1TB model doesn't share these same characteristics. The WD Reds are quieter, among the quietest 3.5" drives tested. I know the VelociRaptors don't get hot (thanks to the "Ice Pack"). However, the Reds just happen to run even cooler which is always a good thing particularly for a drive running 24/7. I actually checked out the reviews on the Black 1TB (WD1002FAEX). It has lower sequential performance compared to the Red and most likely uses more power and is probably noisier so yeah, the Red's better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

What is on your SSD raid array? Because as long as it is installation stuff only like OS games etc you don't need to back it up. I make sure nothing that is important is on my SSD not because of safety reason but because the stuff that is important like documents, music, video, pictures and saves do not need to be super fast.

Virtual machines. Sizes vary between 5-40GB. Yes, I do need to back them up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Just some food for thought. But anyways you are looking to short stroke a 1tb red to 500GB? Why not just get 2 used 600GB Velociraptors.

OH I misunderstood something you want to short stroke a 2TB Red to 500... I highly doubt that is necisarry again like I said look at the HDTUNE benchmark. It probably doesn't fall off more than 20% until it's well over half full.

The quiet is the primary reason I'm leaning towards the Reds. I was actually all set to buy a couple of VelociRaptor 600GB until I saw a review for the WD Red and noticed max speeds were around the same as the 600GB VelociRaptor. I was thinking if the Red's average sequential performance is around 110MB/s, I can probably short stroke it so that average and minimum sequential speeds will be the same as or even faster than the VelociRaptor's.
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post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

I won't actually short stroke it via LBA mod or anything. Just planning to create a partition before performance drops off. That way, I can always use the rest of the drive for storage if needed. As you mentioned, short stroking would also have the effect of reducing access times thereby increasing random performance. Not that that'll matter much since I'll have SSDs in the system anyway and likely anything performance sensitive will be located on the SSDs.
Good choice. thumb.gif

It sounds like you're after low noise - the Reds seem like the way to go. If you ever need more space, you can expand the partition... and while you don't, you can enjoy very high sequential write speeds. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

The quiet is the primary reason I'm leaning towards the Reds. I was actually all set to buy a couple of VelociRaptor 600GB until I saw a review for the WD Red and noticed max speeds were around the same as the 600GB VelociRaptor. I was thinking if the Red's average sequential performance is around 110MB/s, I can probably short stroke it so that average and minimum sequential speeds will be the same as or even faster than the VelociRaptor's.
Although the average speed is lower, because of their size they actually maintain a decent speed longer than the velociraptors do. I think you've made your decision. smile.gif
     
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post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

The quiet is the primary reason I'm leaning towards the Reds. I was actually all set to buy a couple of VelociRaptor 600GB until I saw a review for the WD Red and noticed max speeds were around the same as the 600GB VelociRaptor. I was thinking if the Red's average sequential performance is around 110MB/s, I can probably short stroke it so that average and minimum sequential speeds will be the same as or even faster than the VelociRaptor's.
Although the average speed is lower, because of their size they actually maintain a decent speed longer than the velociraptors do. I think you've made your decision. smile.gif[/quote]


To OP from what you said about the red I think you may have the right guy. I think the lack of heat has something to do with it being designed as a NAS drive. I believe the power draw is more efficient as well for the same reason lack of heat and compatibility with weak power supplies in NAS boxes.

To Kramy I am not sure what you mean bye this at all? Are you trying to say that they maintain a decent speed longer as in throughout the entire disk or what are you saying? If so then I really have to disagree with that. Not that it really matters to the OP because I think the RED is probably what he is going to get but the velociraptor performs near it's through the entire drive. One the reasons for this is that essentially it is a permanently short stroked hard drive. The density is there but they cut off half or more of the platter off so there is no end of the drive to slow you down. Then by doing that they also decreased the rotational mass which makes it easier to spin up to 10k. So all in all unless the RED starts with higher max read/write speeds it isn't going to perform faster anywhere on its drive compared to the Velociraptor.

Anyways best of luck Rui.
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post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post

Although the average speed is lower, because of their size they actually maintain a decent speed longer than the velociraptors do. I think you've made your decision. smile.gif

You're right. I eventually found sequential graphs for the WD20EFRX. I skipped directly to the data throughput page in the Tom's Hardware review so I missed the graph in the product description page. Looks like the WD20EFRX will be able to maintain around 140MB/s up to 500GB whereas the VelociRaptor has tapered off below 120MB/s at that point. Given that the WD20EFRX is quieter, cooler, uses less power and runs faster, I think the choice is obvious.

Tom's Hardware Western Digital Red Review


Haven't quite made up my mind yet, though. While the VelociRaptor is out of the running, I just saw the thread on the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX and looks like it uses the same 1TB platters that the Reds do. Now I have to decide between the WD20EFRX and the WD10EZEX. If both are short stroked to 500GB, looks like I'll get 140-150MB/s sequential on the WD20EFRX and 150-180MB/s on the WD10EZEX. Now the question is do I go for the faster but potentially noisier drive (WD10EZEX) or the slightly slower, likely quieter drive (WD20EFRX). thinking.gif
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post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

To Kramy I am not sure what you mean bye this at all? Are you trying to say that they maintain a decent speed longer as in throughout the entire disk or what are you saying? If so then I really have to disagree with that.
Yes, they maintain a higher speed longer than the Velociraptors do.

I'm going to give Rui a rep, because he tracked down the graphs that prove it. It's always nice seeing someone on these boards that understands how hard drive speed and capacity relate. smile.gif

rui-no-onna: All your thinking so far has been correct. Go buy the drives. biggrin.gif They're the right drives for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Haven't quite made up my mind yet, though. While the VelociRaptor is out of the running, I just saw the thread on the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX and looks like it uses the same 1TB platters that the Reds do. Now I have to decide between the WD20EFRX and the WD10EZEX. If both are short stroked to 500GB, looks like I'll get 140-150MB/s sequential on the WD20EFRX and 150-180MB/s on the WD10EZEX. Now the question is do I go for the faster but potentially noisier drive (WD10EZEX) or the slightly slower, likely quieter drive (WD20EFRX). thinking.gif
Edit: WD10EZEX drives are not noisy. You might be interested in my thread here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1297633/wd10ezex-review-wd-blue-1tb-single-platter-drive/50

They're certainly a good choice, although I prefer to have a longer warranty (Reds) and more expansion room. I don't own any WD Reds yet, so I cannot compare noise levels.

If you really think you won't need the extra capacity, you can find WD10EZEX drives for $69.99 each... that certainly drops the cost a bit!

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74462&vpn=WD10EZEX&manufacture=Western%20Digital%20WD&promoid=1230
Edited by Kramy - 11/10/12 at 10:58pm
     
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post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post

Edit: WD10EZEX drives are not noisy. You might be interested in my thread here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1297633/wd10ezex-review-wd-blue-1tb-single-platter-drive/50

They're certainly a good choice, although I prefer to have a longer warranty (Reds) and more expansion room. I don't own any WD Reds yet, so I cannot compare noise levels.

If you really think you won't need the extra capacity, you can find WD10EZEX drives for $69.99 each... that certainly drops the cost a bit!

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74462&vpn=WD10EZEX&manufacture=Western%20Digital%20WD&promoid=1230

Thanks for the input! Didn't realize the Blues had shorter warranty. Anyway, I just bought the Reds. Besides, knowing me, I'll find some way to make use of all that extra space.
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post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Thanks for the input! Didn't realize the Blues had shorter warranty. Anyway, I just bought the Reds. Besides, knowing me, I'll find some way to make use of all that extra space.
They didn't used to have a shorter warranty, but when Seagate dropped their desktop drives to just 1 year, WD countered by dropping their Blues/Greens to 2 years. (And then the Reds came out with the original 3yr warranty.)

I've still got Greens that are warrantied until late 2014, but some of the new Greens people have bought will have their warranties expire before mine do.
     
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post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post

They didn't used to have a shorter warranty, but when Seagate dropped their desktop drives to just 1 year, WD countered by dropping their Blues/Greens to 2 years. (And then the Reds came out with the original 3yr warranty.)

I've still got Greens that are warrantied until late 2014, but some of the new Greens people have bought will have their warranties expire before mine do.

1 year? Ouch. I've got a bunch of Barracudas that still have a 5-year warranty (bought several months before Seagate lowered warranty of OEM drives to 3 years).
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