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[MAX PC] Nvidia Posts Record Revenue on Strength of Kepler - Page 5

post #41 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

The HD 7970 is 20% faster per clock than the GTX 680 and runs cooler. Power consumption is in Nvidia's favor however.

The 680 puts out less heat, Nvidia just put in a fan profile that favoured extremely low noise. You can't hear a reference 680 fan until 80c, the 7970 is audible before it hits 70c. The 7970 also has a beefier fansink and larger fan. Temperature graphs are meaningless without proper context

Also 20% faster clock for clock isn't even close to being right. Not to mention you're ignoring the fact that GK104 is held back in other areas, making it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks. You can't even begin to quantify how they compare clock for clock with just a single statement like that

Fair enough on the temperature point. It appears you are indeed correct on that.

perfrel_2560.gif

These are averages across TPU's testing suite.

If you look back at their 680 review you'll see their card boosts to 1110MHz. Stock 7970 runs at 925MHz and is roughly 1% faster. 1110/925 = 1.2.

We can also look at TPU's review of the MATRIX 7970 Platinum using Catalyst 12.7.

perfrel_2560.gif

This shows the 7970 at 1100MHz outperforming the 680 at 1110MHz by 15% with Catalyst 12.7. As shown above they saw a 7% improvement going from 12.7 to 12.11.

How did I make it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks?
Edited by Usario - 11/9/12 at 10:46pm
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post #42 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

The HD 7970 is 20% faster per clock than the GTX 680 and runs cooler. Power consumption is in Nvidia's favor however.

The 680 puts out less heat, Nvidia just put in a fan profile that favoured extremely low noise. You can't hear a reference 680 fan until 80c, the 7970 is audible before it hits 70c. The 7970 also has a beefier fansink and larger fan. Temperature graphs are meaningless without proper context

Also 20% faster clock for clock isn't even close to being right. Not to mention you're ignoring the fact that GK104 is held back in other areas, making it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks. You can't even begin to quantify how they compare clock for clock with just a single statement like that

Fair enough on the temperature point. It appears you are indeed correct on that.



These are averages across TPU's testing suite.

If you look back at their 680 review you'll see their card boosts to 1110MHz. Stock 7970 runs at 925MHz and is roughly 1% faster. 1110/925 = 1.2.

How did I make it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks?

I suppose with the new drivers 20% is within the realm of possibility which is impressive.

I thought you were referring to the fact that overclocked 7970s tend to gain more out of core clocks than the 680s which tend to plateau due to memory bandwidth constraints. But thats not what you were saying so my mistake
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post #43 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

The 680 puts out less heat, Nvidia just put in a fan profile that favoured extremely low noise. You can't hear a reference 680 fan until 80c, the 7970 is audible before it hits 70c. The 7970 also has a beefier fansink and larger fan. Temperature graphs are meaningless without proper context
Also 20% faster clock for clock isn't even close to being right. Not to mention you're ignoring the fact that GK104 is held back in other areas, making it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks. You can't even begin to quantify how they compare clock for clock with just a single statement like that

You can't concede your point about heat that make one sided arguments on why even with it's faults it's a better setup.... Yes Kepler is more efficient per watt but GCN is cooler by having higher fan profiles and bigger sinks. So it's a wash unless you want a whisper quite rig and if so *** are you doing on air!? get that sucker under water for low noise. Contexts put both cards at a wash at a best case and favors AMD in the worst case since, even if kepler is cool, without voltages you can't take full advantage of said temps.


Anyone who is keen on GPU knows about the 680 basically being the 660 because of their past release patterns and designs but NV released GK104 and we can't compare mythical beast until they're released, if we did BD should've rained supreme until Haswell by the storied "expected" performance numbers and the whole "MOAR CORES" debacle, the 680 is the 680 and that's all there is to it.

They way things are now because of the things that do hold back kepler with their rops and bus AMD is the better card and scales better the higher the clocks go. It's a shame I went from my 460's to a 7970 as I really wanted my rig to be quite and cool with an NV card but my DC2T card is super quiet and quite cool.


You also have to remember that kepler boost differently depending on cards so even if you put two lightnings next to each other both would auto clock different depending on silicone, so while you might see test with a 925 7970 vs a 1k 680 after the boost it can be anywhere from 1.1-1.2 on the hgiher end cards but most "reviews" will always accidentally omit this info.


Besides AMD having the crown is a great thing and will push both companies forward! The whole $550 for a 7970 was horrible but AMD could reel in the suckers...I mean early adopters tongue.gif but then counter NV's prices with price drops which in the end helps us as consumers. thumb.gif With NV stock doing well it will also help them continue to improve performance and deliver great cards.
Edited by Junkboy - 11/9/12 at 10:55pm
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post #44 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

The 680 puts out less heat, Nvidia just put in a fan profile that favoured extremely low noise. You can't hear a reference 680 fan until 80c, the 7970 is audible before it hits 70c. The 7970 also has a beefier fansink and larger fan. Temperature graphs are meaningless without proper context
Also 20% faster clock for clock isn't even close to being right. Not to mention you're ignoring the fact that GK104 is held back in other areas, making it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks. You can't even begin to quantify how they compare clock for clock with just a single statement like that

You can't concede your point about heat that make one sided arguments on why even with it's faults it's a better setup.... Yes Kepler is more efficient per watt but GCN is cooler by having higher fan profiles and bigger sinks. So it's a wash unless you want a whisper quite rig and if so *** are you doing on air!? get that sucker under water for low noise. Contexts put both cards at a wash at a best case and favors AMD in the worst case since, even if kepler is cool, without voltages you can't take full advantage of said temps.

What are you talking about. I'm not saying anything about which is a better setup, I was just correcting the point about GK104 generating more heat which it doesn't. GCN isn't "cooler", it's more aggressive about keeping itself cool. I can easily make a fan profile for a 680 that would keep it way cooler than a 7970. Temperature =/= heat generated. Ivy Bridge runs warmer than SB but actually generates much less heat than SB does. There is a difference.

I don't know why you're talking about water cooling or about voltage control or your 460s.

The 680 is both cooler and consumes less power than the 7970, that's all I was saying. Speed and voltage control is clearly a 7970 win and I never said anything to the contrary. My argument about clock for clock (which isn't max performance) was flawed and I conceded that.
Edited by Tslm - 11/9/12 at 11:27pm
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post #45 of 124
just shows how retarded people are. it's as clear as daythat the 7970's are the better cards. cheaper too
post #46 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by jprovido View Post

just shows how retarded people are. it's as clear as daythat the 7970's are the better cards. cheaper too

The irony of calling people retarded for buying something in your sig rig made me chuckle a little, but driver superiority and running cooler and quieter aren't trivial issues and pretty firmly go to Nvidia this round. Not to mention the Nvidia-exclusive things, which I can understand why some wouldn't care about them. They are still factors, however.
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post #47 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

The irony of calling people retarded for buying something in your sig rig made me chuckle a little, but driver superiority and running cooler and quieter aren't trivial issues and pretty firmly go to Nvidia this round. Not to mention the Nvidia-exclusive things, which I can understand why some wouldn't care about them. They are still factors, however.

That irony isn't lost on me either, but I can completely understand his point of view. After all, it wasn't until recently the 79X0 was the better value (at least, for common resolutions).

You can't knock him for buying what made sense at the time and recognizing that it would no longer make sense to buy the same product today.

You can knock him for being rude though tongue.gif


At any rate, you're right, those nvidia technologies do matter to a lot of people, can't blame them for that, it's something that can tip their hand for sure. That said, they are evil evil things and developers need to stop supporting them for the sake of the entire industry (including nvidia themselves, in the long run).
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post #48 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

What are you talking about. I'm not saying anything about which is a better setup, I was just correcting the point about GK104 generating more heat which it doesn't. GCN isn't "cooler", it's more aggressive about keeping itself cool. I can easily make a fan profile for a 680 that would keep it way cooler than a 7970. Temperature =/= heat generated. Ivy Bridge runs warmer than SB but actually generates much less heat than SB does. There is a difference.
I don't know why you're talking about water cooling or about voltage control or your 460s.
The 680 is both cooler and consumes less power than the 7970, that's all I was saying. Speed and voltage control is clearly a 7970 win and I never said anything to the contrary. My argument about clock for clock (which isn't max performance) was flawed and I conceded that.

My comment is 100% accurate, it is cooler by having a higher profile like I already said and NOT by the architecture which I never implied........ Just because you want to argue semantics doesn't mean your argument is factual.

"it's more aggressive about keeping itself cool" Yes, and because of that it's "Cooler", see what I did there. I never argued the efficiency of the design merely of the real world impact on both cards, where GCN seems to use higher profiles so for the people that don't mess with settings the argument that Kepler is cooler is also flawed. Since for stock a higher fan profile is better for temps but hurts on the Decibel front.

Like I said Kepler is better per watt and temps can be better on most cards but it's still can't be taken advantage of because it's voltages are locked,. The reason voltage is important is because as the site's name most who come here want to "Overclock" so most assume that better temps = higher OC potential and in this case it just isn't true for anything not using LN2 and modded bios.


NV doing well is good for everyone but we all need to be realistic in which scenarios every cards pros and cons help. The main pros for NV is CUDA, folding and PhysX and with the small penetration the Physx in games make the pro not that much of an win .

A price adjustment will make everyone's lives better since it will cut down on these arguments and make the whole 680 vs 7970 a little less one sided, but even when value is comparable some will always argue for their camp regardless of real world scenarios and uncommon sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

The irony of calling people retarded for buying something in your sig rig made me chuckle a little, but driver superiority and running cooler and quieter aren't trivial issues and pretty firmly go to Nvidia this round. Not to mention the Nvidia-exclusive things, which I can understand why some wouldn't care about them. They are still factors, however.


He's had it for awhile and probably purchased it when the 680 was not as horrible value as it is now. But his comment while very rude does go to the main point of which cards should people buy today, and why one camp shouldn't really argue as much as it is now. But in their defense the AMD camp is getting pretty annoying at times and throwing around tons of high res benchies where the 7970 pulls away when in reality @ 1080 and under the cards are pretty much on equal footing with .


Though If I had a 670 and had one for awhile I wouldn't really be mad as prices and value always fluctuate and there's always something better up ahead. In this case something from behind chased and overtook but most NV owners of 670 should still be quite happy with their cards........680 owners on the other hand......well early adopters always get screwed anyways. tongue.gif
Edited by Junkboy - 11/10/12 at 1:28am
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post #49 of 124
I'm not surprised with how over priced they are...
post #50 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Fair enough on the temperature point. It appears you are indeed correct on that.
perfrel_2560.gif
These are averages across TPU's testing suite.
If you look back at their 680 review you'll see their card boosts to 1110MHz. Stock 7970 runs at 925MHz and is roughly 1% faster. 1110/925 = 1.2.
We can also look at TPU's review of the MATRIX 7970 Platinum using Catalyst 12.7.
perfrel_2560.gif
This shows the 7970 at 1100MHz outperforming the 680 at 1110MHz by 15% with Catalyst 12.7. As shown above they saw a 7% improvement going from 12.7 to 12.11.
How did I make it seem like it doesn't scale with higher clocks?

You win the most retarded post of the year award. Good work
Edited by Cloudfire777 - 11/10/12 at 6:57am
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