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[EW] Intel cuts training, delays 14nm, raises fears for Ireland. - Page 8

post #71 of 127
Ugh these consoles. I dont care about buying them, but theyd better come out soon to push graphics again. I cant believe im saying.

Or maybe they will never come out and people will get tired of crappy graphics and see how glorious PC graphics are compared to 6 YEAR old hardware. Holy crap actually its worse than that because consoles dont use the latest hardware.

What happened to pushing the limit on the graphics? frown.gif

And what is happening with no hyperthreading support still for games? How is this even possible after so long?
Edited by iEATu - 11/10/12 at 9:56pm
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post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Lol. Intel taking it easy cause no competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForNever View Post

Ugh, exactly. Now we'll only see advancements every 5+ years instead of every one or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDub07 View Post

For the people happy about AMD setbacks and performance issues this is the reality of what will happen if AMD drops out of the race all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

This is why AMD must survive. There is no incentive for Intel to innovate when there is no credible threat from competitors. Lack of competition = stagnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorched912 View Post

Intel... Please... Give money to AMD... So you have competition... You've won already...
All of you need to stop posting immediately. There aren't words the English language to describe how ashamed you all should be of yourselves.

There is massive uncertainty in the global economy right now — President Obama's reelection (regardless of your political views, the election has had and will have an effect on corporate growth), the ongoing eurozone crisis, and the Fiscal Cliff. Even if you weren't aware of this, you should be well aware that pretty much every tech company out there is projecting next year to be plagued with low demand.

But no, let's take the most ignorant, ridiculous conspiracy theory and run with it. I hate critical thinking! It's too hard! Someone give me a reach-around!

...Brilliant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Intel can create demand buy making much faster CPU not 5% increase increments.
A high school education would be enough to enlighten you to the fact that Intel can't fix a shoddy economy. Intel doesn't have trillions of dollars. In fact, Intel's rather small compared to other corporations, like Exxon Mobil. They're smaller than Microsoft. Smaller than Apple. And all of those are a drop in the bucket compared to various federal governments.

Stop acting like you're entitled to some arbitrary percentile of performance increases every year. Also, you need to wake up to the fact that the performance race died out long ago.
Edited by Homeles - 11/10/12 at 11:08pm
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post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

No, there's not enough demand so Intel is artificially lowering 14nm production capacity to help ensure 22nm chips have been all bought, do you think Intel really wants warehouses full of Haswell chips while Broadwell is out? It has nothing to do with AMD but with consumers buying less parts.
Besides, Intel have great reasons to push forward fab technology, their main competition has been ARMs LP chips for a while now and they'll definitely want to keep their lead on process technology.
Intel's main competition is ARM, and even if AMD was ahead they'd still delay it, people aren't buying as many consumer electronics as they were which means that Intel, AMD, IBM, etc all aren't selling as many chips as they were, it has absolutely nothing to do with demand..even AMD is feeling the pressure from this.
Exactly, all this means is Intel doesn't want to over-estimate how many 14nm chips they need.
To date the only game I've noticed the difference between AMD and Intel (As I have both an i5 and a FX-4170 in the same room) is MInecraft; hardware speed has been increasing much faster than software can use it..honestly, the PC market could use some slowing down for now.
Not really, 95% of consumers couldn't care less about speed right now and don't want to spend the extra money on machines they won't see the difference on, you can go on Facebook on a Pentium G850 or a 3930K and not notice the difference.
It depends what you do, for me an FX-8320 beats everything in the same price-range that Intel has to offer because it either matches a 3770k (Video encoding), a 3570k (Most other things I do) or is behind but in an unnoticeable way (Gaming), as someone who has used an i5 3570k and FX-4170 the difference in gaming is nothing without fraps open.
The slowdown was more economic reasons, if I recall correctly.
So what is ARM? Don't they exist? That's Intels main competition and is pushing them to reduce power consumption while increasing performance.

It's nice to see an honest answer on here.

[edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

All of you need to stop posting immediately. There aren't words the English language to describe how ashamed you all should be of yourselves.
There is massive uncertainty in the global economy right now — President Obama's reelection (I.e., no corporation loving Mitt Romney as president = no big bucks for big business. Regardless of your political views, the election has had and will have an effect on corporate growth), the ongoing eurozone crisis, and the Fiscal Cliff. Even if you weren't aware of this, you should be well aware that pretty much every tech company out there is projecting next year to be plagued with low demand.
But no, let's take the most ignorant, ridiculous conspiracy theory and run with it. I hate critical thinking! It's too hard! Someone give me a reach-around!
...Brilliant.
A high school education would be enough to enlighten you to the fact that Intel can't fix a shoddy economy. Intel doesn't have trillions of dollars. In fact, Intel's rather small compared to other corporations, like Exxon Mobil. They're smaller than Microsoft. Smaller than Apple. And all of those are a drop in the bucket compared to various federal governments.
Stop acting like you're entitled to some arbitrary percentile of performance increases every year. Also, you need to wake up to the fact that the performance race died out long ago.

To add, look at IBM. IBM is, well it's the father of both AMD and Intel and they aren't even able to push miracle growth in the PC market (or tech market period). The fastest growth is going in ARM at the moment, mainly because the market exploded faster than anyone could predict (phones).

So what's the real hold up? Why don't we see a company like IBM with 9x the value of Intel slap some money on the table and go 14nm? It's a mess and demand isn't there. Even the server market is going to shot, the only reason any company has a reason to upgrade servers would be if the efficiency is so good they can save more money than the cost. If they still make it out of the red, they will continue to do so until they need new servers for demand.

Honestly I see both the home market and the corporate market suffering from the same dilemma. We have been blessed with some of the best hardware we can imagine, sure it's not cost effective (efficiency) but what we have now is the equal to when the small block V8 was created. It's beefy, it's fast, it gets the job done when we want it.
Edited by mushroomboy - 11/10/12 at 11:11pm
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post #74 of 127
Intel's not delaying 14nm...just delaying the fab upgrade in Ireland.

To the people who are saying Intel is not innovating, did you not see the Haswell uArch reveal?

Yessh.
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post #75 of 127
I just don't see what a faster CPU even offers anymore. For most home users, programs are usually I/O bound (loading files from slow HDD, or waiting on the user themself). For most gamers, things are GPU bound (either GPU processing or memory bandwidth). For movies, if they are not using a GPU, are usually also IO bound (how fast is your LAN, or your internet). For most business related stuff, same applies. And if any problem requires/uses more then 4 or so cores, it probably is a very parallel problem and thus you just chuck it on to a GPU, way faster. Memory Bandwith isn't much a constraint anymore, neither is RAM itself (you can get 16 gigs for like 80 dollars now, basically pocket change to upgrade RAM).

I just don't see the future for CPU's. Sure you will always need some to run business stuff, but with virtualization you can use less and less. For supercomputing, it is pretty much GPU's with CPU's overseeing them.
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post #76 of 127
Back to another old standby of mine, with the direction this thread is going. Software drives hardware. It's the way it's always been and it's not going to stop. The process may have slowed, but I guarantee you there's going to be some new big thing that consumers will all want and will all want better computers for.

Just don't expect to see it anytime soon. Many of the reasons have already been covered in this thread, but the bottom line is, the bottom line will always drive hardware companies to make decisions like this all day.
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post #77 of 127

Yes we need artificial intelligence to compete with US so WE can be more innovative with our mind lachen.gif.  

   
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post #78 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho12345 View Post

I just don't see what a faster CPU even offers anymore. For most home users, programs are usually I/O bound (loading files from slow HDD, or waiting on the user themself). For most gamers, things are GPU bound (either GPU processing or memory bandwidth). For movies, if they are not using a GPU, are usually also IO bound (how fast is your LAN, or your internet). For most business related stuff, same applies. And if any problem requires/uses more then 4 or so cores, it probably is a very parallel problem and thus you just chuck it on to a GPU, way faster. Memory Bandwith isn't much a constraint anymore, neither is RAM itself (you can get 16 gigs for like 80 dollars now, basically pocket change to upgrade RAM).
I just don't see the future for CPU's. Sure you will always need some to run business stuff, but with virtualization you can use less and less. For supercomputing, it is pretty much GPU's with CPU's overseeing them.


I agree with this. The average consumer could get by with a Athlon II X2 for all their processing needs.
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post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

This isn't about competition, I don't think AMD really presented enough of a threat to motivate them anyway, at least within the past several years. This is about low demand like the article states. If the demand within a certain frame of time is low there's no reason for Intel to push out 14nm when very few people will end up buying it. It's better to bide their time and wait for the opportune time to work on new products. Just to be clear here, competition means little, even for competing products, if overall demand is low.

I don't really agree. In a time where portatility is becoming the essence of the problem, a smaller die will make the diference. If Intel feels that the lead they have is enough to decelerate, I can understand that, but in no way things are going bad for desktops or the chip makers.

We are living in a time that EVERYTHING as a processor or a chip inside. I have 2 desktops and 3 laptops, 4 cellphones and possibly a tablet on the way. This is my household. Many others exist.
We are already dependant on all this. And it will continue to go "worse".

How can that be bad for Intel and others?
The world is a little bit on idle, it is still the aftermath of the 2008 crisis.
In a couple of years everything will go back to normal, i Think.
post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

To date the only game I've noticed the difference between AMD and Intel (As I have both an i5 and a FX-4170 in the same room) is MInecraft; hardware speed has been increasing much faster than software can use it..honestly, the PC market could use some slowing down for now..
No, we just need more programs that can fully utilize CPUs.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanage View Post

Haven't you heard, desktop sales declining everywhere (some may even say declining FAST) .. why would a business continue or even ramp up production, operations and development in a category bleeding out and declining fast.

Tough times ahead for desktops for sure.

Last I heard sales were below expectations all around the board, obviously the mobile market is still growing but it's going at a much higher speed of innovation than it will be able to uphold for much longer.
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Most people here would be fine with Q6600s, which are currently coming up on 6 years old (Launched Q1-2007), if you only game there's no doubt as to an i5 2500k lasting 5+ years easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorched912 View Post

Intel... Please... Give money to AMD... So you have competition... You've won already...

This has about as much to do with AMD as an ant farm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iEATu View Post

Ugh these consoles. I dont care about buying them, but theyd better come out soon to push graphics again. I cant believe im saying.

Or maybe they will never come out and people will get tired of crappy graphics and see how glorious PC graphics are compared to 6 YEAR old hardware. Holy crap actually its worse than that because consoles dont use the latest hardware.

What happened to pushing the limit on the graphics? frown.gif

And what is happening with no hyperthreading support still for games? How is this even possible after so long?

Gaming is an extremely small niche, and even if every game pushed CPUs to their limit and beyond 14nm demand still would be lower than what Intel was expecting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Lol. Intel taking it easy cause no competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForNever View Post

Ugh, exactly. Now we'll only see advancements every 5+ years instead of every one or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDub07 View Post

For the people happy about AMD setbacks and performance issues this is the reality of what will happen if AMD drops out of the race all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

This is why AMD must survive. There is no incentive for Intel to innovate when there is no credible threat from competitors. Lack of competition = stagnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorched912 View Post

Intel... Please... Give money to AMD... So you have competition... You've won already...
All of you need to stop posting immediately. There aren't words the English language to describe how ashamed you all should be of yourselves.

There is massive uncertainty in the global economy right now — President Obama's reelection (regardless of your political views, the election has had and will have an effect on corporate growth), the ongoing eurozone crisis, and the Fiscal Cliff. Even if you weren't aware of this, you should be well aware that pretty much every tech company out there is projecting next year to be plagued with low demand.

But no, let's take the most ignorant, ridiculous conspiracy theory and run with it. I hate critical thinking! It's too hard! Someone give me a reach-around!

...Brilliant.

Exactly, this has absolutely nothing to do with AMD..Intel haven't seen AMD as competitors for a very long time now and visa versa, both are competing more with ARM chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Back to another old standby of mine, with the direction this thread is going. Software drives hardware. It's the way it's always been and it's not going to stop. The process may have slowed, but I guarantee you there's going to be some new big thing that consumers will all want and will all want better computers for.

Just don't expect to see it anytime soon. Many of the reasons have already been covered in this thread, but the bottom line is, the bottom line will always drive hardware companies to make decisions like this all day.

The economy is slowing right down at the moment, hence the computing industry is slowing down too, this isn't because of a lack of need for performance/improvements (Quite the opposite, actually..how nice would longer battery life be on a phone/tablet/laptop?) at all.
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