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Data collection regarding tube clouding or lack of.

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
To help determine what causes tubing to get cloudy, or prevents it, I would like anybody willig to submit dat regarding this to do so by posting on this thread or by e-mail to: tube.clouding.survey@gmail.com

PLZ use this form, (if you dont have the data for some parts, just write "no data":

1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
5: what coolant do you use
6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
7: which dyes do you use
8: any other additives
9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
11: water temp during runtime
12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
15: Ph of coolant:below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.

I hope to be able to indentify risk factors by doing this. This could help everyone keep their tubes clear.

This kind of "investigation" has been attempted before (please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database), but i wanted to add a few more questions, so i hope you will participate.
post #2 of 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engelskhorn View Post

To help determine what causes tubing to get cloudy, or prevents it, I would like anybody willig to submit dat regarding this to do so by posting on this thread or by e-mail to: tube.clouding.survey@gmail.com
PLZ use this form, (if you dont have the data for some parts, just write "no data":
1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
5: what coolant do you use
6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
7: which dyes do you use
8: any other additives
9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
11: water temp during runtime
12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
15: Ph of coolant:below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.
I hope to be able to indentify risk factors by doing this. This could help everyone keep their tubes clear.
This kind of "investigation" has been attempted before (please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database), but i wanted to add a few more questions, so i hope you will participate.
1. Not Clouded - as far as I can see
2. Copper, Brass
3. Acrylic res
4. No-name PVC UV active red 10/8 mm from aquatuning - http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p198_tubing-PVC-10-8mm--5-16-ID--UV-active-red.html
5. 1/3 red car antifreeze (~50% glycerol), 2/3 distilled so altogehter (~25% glycerol, ~75% distilled)

6. No biocides, I have already that car antifreeze in the loop.
7. No Dyes, the Car antifreeze is red enough.
8. Car antifreeze (the red one, intended for engines with aluminium parts in it)
9. 5 months (since June 2012)
10. Ambient between +40 and -30 C during transport (its portable system), during operation ~ +20 .. +25 C ambient
11. Water temp during operation is ~25 ... 30 C (approx 5C water delta)
12. Flushed with tap water for ~5 minutes.
13. First build so no previous parts
14. Internally dont know, loop has been closed, externally some brass has been slightly corroded.
15. No idea on Ph. Have not measured it.
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Kohver v.4
(25 items)
 
Kohver v.3
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Soliton
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Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Corsair LE 480HB Sythe big shuriken rev B 
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DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
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Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Sythe big shuriken rev B Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
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post #3 of 5
Thread Starter 
I have done a preliminary analysis on correlation between tube brand and clouding, using the data from the database mentioned in the first post, as well as the first submitted data.

The only thing that pops out so far, is that primochill tubing (29 of 61 data sets, 8 of 12 clouding cases) seems to have a slightly elevated risk of clouding, but not to the point where it is statistically at higher than 85%. In other words, from the analysed data, primochill has an higher risk of clouding compaired to all non-primochill tubing in the test, with 85% likelyhood.

To be able to achive better detection of small differences, i need more data:)
post #4 of 5
Well, 61 datapoints is not that great indeed atlhough as you pointed out it offers approx 87% reliability for the results. Would need approx 400 datapoints for reaching ~95% reliability of the results which should be already accurate enough to be able to blame something in particular reliably.

I think that such form as presented above is not particularly attractive to be able to gather significant enough number of datapoints and it would be rather hard work to sort throgh the data afterwards as well. Perhaps it would be more suitable to cook up some kind of poll where one can just tick the boxes within couple of minutes and then get enough people to do that poll for getting the data. Ofc, poll is not as "accurate" as letting people to write something they think is relevant, however, its much simpler and might attract more participants plus the data is already organized into a form which makes further analysis easier.
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Kohver v.4
(25 items)
 
Kohver v.3
(21 items)
 
Soliton
(23 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Corsair LE 480HB Sythe big shuriken rev B 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Nexxos 280mm radiator DC-LT Alphacool GPX 390M04 Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
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CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Significantly modded Jupiter .. something alumi... Logitech G700s 
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64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
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Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Sythe big shuriken rev B Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
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DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
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CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Modded Sharkoon VS-3 Logitech G700s 
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3M Ergonomic 
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Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 64 GB Samsung 750 GB F3 Barracuda 3 TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Custom loop Windows 7 Pro 64 bit DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 
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9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i 
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post #5 of 5
1. Tubing is clouded to the point vision is obscured.
2. Copper, brass
3. Acrylic
4. Primoflex "clear" 3/8"ID, 5/8"OD Pro LRT purchased Aug 2012
5. Running Demineralised water
6 Silver Killcoil
7 No dyes
8 No additives.
9 10 weeks
10 approx 27C ambient room temp
11 Water temps 30-35 (4-6 deg delta)
12 Flushed with demineralised water
13 New build, new parts
14 new build, new parts no visible corrosion (as expected)
15 No data

Kryos HF on Maximus IV e z68

Tubing had completely clouded within 48 hrs of leak testing.

I had setup pump / res and radiator in 1 cabinet and had the tubing through to the pc cabinet (approx 1m) and return line. QDC fittings on each allows me to put in a T piece and give me a loop and drainport to leaktest before even putting motherboard in. Jumpered an old powersupply (located approx 60cm away from loop) and fired it up with demineralised water only. Had to drain and tighten/ change fittings a number of times (had a prblem sealing the rad outlet - teflon tape won that battle for me nicely). Only Electronics near loop was the pump (aquacomputer D5), Only metal in the loop was the radiator - HWL gtx 480 - THOROUGHLY flushed - , monsoon fittings, coolance QDC's , T block and drainport. Demineralised water only - no silver killcoil, no additives / dyes.

Over the course of a couple of days of leak testing the tubing had become completely opaque. I would estimate it running for 36 to 48 hours and had 4-5 drain / refills (always fresh water - never reused any that was drained).

After adding the PC into the loop and leak testing 12 hours the fresh tubing was starting to cloud, and within a day of operation was fully clouded.
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the Anti-Laptop
(21 items)
 
PC Armchair
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k asus maximus 4 E z-68 nVidia gtx 570 corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
ocz agility 3 2tb seagate barracuda lg dvd read write AquaComputer Kryos HF 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
AquaComputer Aquagrafx 580 full block HardwareLabs GTX 480 AquaComputer D5 pump EK D5 reservoir top 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Primoflex tubing monsoon compression fittings AquaComputer Aquero windows 7 home premium 
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24" samsung Logitech k810 Seasonic 850w gold A modified armchair 
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