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post #31 of 42
Frostbyte 2 engine

heck even Tom's shows that FX series is good for gaming.

Look at the minimum frames of the Pentium G860 (Sandy Bridge) vs Zambezi FX-4170.
more than 30% less min frames.

funny how the FX-8350 at stock is better than a i7-3960X @4.25GHz.
Not everybody upgrade every hardware generation. With a budget build I would think
it should be ready for next generation gaming. Online gaming is more demanding than
single player. Games are only going to be more demanding in the future. If both next generation
xbox and playstation are going to use AMD APU (most likely quad cores) console ports are not
likely going to run well on intel dual core.

Why does intel charge so much for hex-core processors?

if the OP is thinking about the deal that was posted for $420 with the Asus Crosshair III motherboard.
it would be easy to drop in a $90 x6 1045T from MC ( Tiger Direct had it the same price a few days ago) http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1724262
95W hex core that should overclock to 4.0GHz.

With the option to pick up another HD6870 for crossfire fun in the future.
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post #32 of 42
Thread Starter 
I can't really afford to get processors as expensive as the FXs, I was looking at either a G830 or an Athlon x3, so I could keep the price lower while getting a good GPU, which of those would be better? The AMD could potentially unlock to a quad core; or would the intel be better with the l3 cache and upgrade line?
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baskerville View Post

I can't really afford to get processors as expensive as the FXs, I was looking at either a G830 or an Athlon x3, so I could keep the price lower while getting a good GPU, which of those would be better? The AMD could potentially unlock to a quad core; or would the intel be better with the l3 cache and upgrade line?

I'd go G830. thumb.gif
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post #34 of 42

For fair comparison purposes, minimum-price configs with total equivalence:

 

i3 2120 - $110 shipped [NCIX]

Low-end minimal features board: ASRock H61 with code SVSGVNG [Superbiiz] - $40 + $6 shipping [Superbiiz]

Fully-featured high end features board: ASRock Z77 Pro3 - $102.55 shipped [Newegg]

 

FX-4300 - $120 shipped [NCIX]

Comparable low-end minimal features board: ECS A960M-M3 - $40 + $3 shipping (this will take the 4300 at stock speed) with code SVSGVNG [Superbiiz]

Fully-featured high end features board: ASRock 970 Extreme3 - $75 shipped [Newegg]

 

Low-end cost: $156 shipped (i3) vs $163 shipped (4300) - $7 difference

Fully-featured cost: $212.55 (i3) vs $195 shipped (4300) - -$17.55 difference, + overclocking headroom (4300 config only)

 

Winner? You decide. The point is that the difference is not drastic at all.

post #35 of 42
Hi Baskerville,

You can go AMD or Intel it doesn't matter. Both are good options with tradeoffs. You should dismiss advice from anyone who is claiming otherwise.

Here's an AMD build idea:

CPU/RAM: FX-6300 + 2x4GB 1600 Patriot Gamer
I like the FX-6300. It's priced just over an i3 but has a some room to scale above the performance of an i3 in more parallel workloads but still manages a respectable enough lightly threaded performance with the very high turbo core speeds. (single threaded performance is comparable to a Pentium G645 in games like SC2.) If it will let you, I would personally tinker a bit with turbo-core overclocking, to help bring the lightly threaded performance up a bit without effecting the maximum TDP. (leave the base clock alone). Since many games utilize 3 cores, a 3 module PD makes sense as a sweet spot for an AMD gaming CPU. The propus you had picked out is a fine chip in its price class for budget builds that can routinely take advantage of 4 cores (still shines against similarly priced intel Pentiums in more parallel workloads), however, the lightly threaded performance is going to come up short of ideal in CPU bound games.

MOBO: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 AM3+
I like the Asus you had picked out, and would not hesitate to keep it in the build if you need to cut some cost but only if you stick to a 95W CPU. I like the fact that this gigabyte board for a few bucks more has a heatsink on the VRM MOSFETS, and a proven track record of not only handling 125W CPUs, but having some overclocking headroom if you want to tinker a bit. Granted, if you aren't overclocking and you stick to 95W CPUs, either board should technically be fine but I would opt for the giga personally. If you pick the giga, you can comfortably use the less expensive phenom II X4 or FX-4170 if you want.

GPU: EVGA GTX650Ti
Same as you had in mind I'm pretty sure. Cut back to an HD7770 if you need to shave off a few bucks. The performance is similar enough. Both are good cards.

HD: Seagate 1TB

PSU: Antec Earthwatts 380W

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX

That's $521 shipped. Find a good deal on windows 7 and an optical drive and you might be able to keep it around $600. Here's a branded copy of win7 worth a look for $70: http://trinitysoftwaredistribution.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=TSD&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GFC-00599-brd


An Intel build is also worth a look here, especially if you play games like SC2 that really favor the better per-core performance of the intel chips.

Take the build above, and switch the CPU to an i3-3220
Then snag this MOBO/RAM combo: GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3H + Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)

That's $519 shipped before windows and optical drive, so, basically the same price as the AMD build, and performance will trade blows depending on how parallel the task is.




Eric
Edited by mdocod - 11/14/12 at 11:47pm
     
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post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

For fair comparison purposes, minimum-price configs with total equivalence:

i3 2120 - $110 shipped [NCIX]
Low-end minimal features board: ASRock H61 with code SVSGVNG [Superbiiz] - $40 + $6 shipping [Superbiiz]
Fully-featured high end features board: ASRock Z77 Pro3 - $102.55 shipped [Newegg]

FX-4300 - $120 shipped [NCIX]
Comparable low-end minimal features board: ECS A960M-M3 - $40 + $3 shipping (this will take the 4300 at stock speed) with code SVSGVNG [Superbiiz]
Fully-featured high end features board: ASRock 970 Extreme3 - $75 shipped [Newegg]

Low-end cost: $156 shipped (i3) vs $163 shipped (4300) - $7 difference
Fully-featured cost: $212.55 (i3) vs $195 shipped (4300) - -$17.55 difference, + overclocking headroom (4300 config only)

Winner? You decide. The point is that the difference is not drastic at all.

Getting a Z77 board with a i3 is stupid, and pointless, you are paying more for an overclocking ability that you will not be able to use, the average user will not notice the difference between a H61 and a Z77 board on an i3. doh.gif

At stock speeds they will perform close to identical, where with the i3 you will get highly increased single core performance. Without overclocking an i3 is the way to go. On a $550 budget FX is no way beneficial to the OP unless he is doing multi-threaded applications, which he is not. If the OP wanted to OC, then he could grab an FX chip and overclock it, it would in turn be better than an i3, but at an increased cost.

The benchmark you linked, nobody is outshining anyone, they are giving near identical performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I understand where the single threaded performance argument comes from but the statement that "the only way the FX chips will shine is if you overclock them" comes on to me as ignorant rhetoric. This is not true at all, and the 4300 provides good performance to boot. The FX-4300 does outshines the i3 in multithreaded/video-encoding/editing tasks by a slight margin. While the single threaded performance is behind, this does not mean that the 4300 is behind in the gaming that he wants to do.
The 4300 actually outshines the i3 in these two gaming tests at Anandbench and these are two recent games. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
These results do not factor in the excellent overclocking headroom that the i3 doesn't have. Whatever the case, having more true cores creates a more consistent and true multitasking experience that leaves power for both games and whatever's in the background.

When you take the FX-6300, which costs just $10 more than the 4300, the i3 would be slain in those tasks.

@rdr09: Oh... the 960T, in comparison to the same-priced FX-6300, is out of date. The FX-6300 walks all over the 960T in power consumption and both single/multi-threaded performance. Anandbench with a 1075T (i.e. what the 960T would be unlocked) - the 6300 soundly matches or outperforms the 1075T in real-world tasks, whereas unlocking the 960T is not even a guarantee. The 1075T has about 1-1.2Ghz of overclocking headroom - the 6300 has 1.3-1.5Ghz.
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post #37 of 42

^ Well, you're misinformed. H61 is missing several features on Z77 boards like SATA3 and USB3. If you even read the terms and the point of my comparison, the condition is that both boards are evenly compared. I used that particular Z77 board because it was the lowest priced Z77 board that could match all the features available on the 970 chipset board; that is: overclocking abiltiy (even if not with the chosen processor), future-gen processor compatibility, SATA3, USB3, etc. If it wasn't even, it wouldn't be fair.

Quote:
which he is not
Quote:
I mostly play BF3, Borderlands, Arma 2, and a lot of source games. As for tasks, limited video editing, and multitasking would be playing games with things like skype or antivirus programs running.

There's going to be multitasking and multithreaded use on here. If OP did want to OC (and come on, this is Overclock.net - of all places he could choose, he asked on a site where overclocking is central to the community), he could bring the 4300 solidly ahead of the i3. The price wouldn't be much different.

post #38 of 42
Thread Starter 
Is getting one of these higher end CPUs worth it? I would have to cut into my video card's budget to get one of them, and I think that a better video card would more beneficial to me. I posted this thread here because, from my experience, most users here are more knowledgeable than those on other websites, although I do like overclocking too.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baskerville View Post

Is getting one of these higher end CPUs worth it? I would have to cut into my video card's budget to get one of them, and I think that a better video card would more beneficial to me. I posted this thread here because, from my experience, most users here are more knowledgeable than those on other websites, although I do like overclocking too.

It would be, but not at the expense of downgrading the video card. I feel like whichever you decide (Intel, AMD) at your price point you won't notice much of a difference between the two.
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post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

^ Well, you're misinformed. H61 is missing several features on Z77 boards like SATA3 and USB3. If you even read the terms and the point of my comparison, the condition is that both boards are evenly compared. I used that particular Z77 board because it was the lowest priced Z77 board that could match all the features available on the 970 chipset board; that is: overclocking abiltiy (even if not with the chosen processor), future-gen processor compatibility, SATA3, USB3, etc. If it wasn't even, it wouldn't be fair.
There's going to be multitasking and multithreaded use on here. If OP did want to OC (and come on, this is Overclock.net - of all places he could choose, he asked on a site where overclocking is central to the community), he could bring the 4300 solidly ahead of the i3. The price wouldn't be much different.

USB 3.0 is not even fully utilized yet, it will only be needed if he had a USB 3.0 Flash drive. Sata3 is also not needed unless he grabs a SSD. For what he listed, the only thing that will even benefit more cores over a GPU upgrade would be "limited video editing." For a gaming rig, cutting the GPU budget to increase the CPU when it will hardly be noticed is a bad idea and a waste of a budget. He will get significantly higher FPS (this is a gaming build and all) if he increased his upgraded his GPU over his CPU.
Edited by Ironman517 - 11/15/12 at 5:05pm
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