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post #21 of 51
Stereo isn't even stereo. True stereophonic sound actually requires 3 channels. They didn't go ahead with that because tripling your amount of speakers would have put people off, and getting the setup of them correct would have been a task for some people. You only need one channel of bass for music. One drum and one bass guitar. Even for movies all the LFE has ever served up is shaking. Every other channel still contains low frequency content.
 
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post #22 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

Recommending a DAC over a sound card sounds like pretty blind advice to me. Way to go. My first comment was asking why he needed 2 subs. When he said he wanted 2.2 one would assume he meant TWO INDEPENDENT bass channels, which is completely pointless. He later said that he merely used two different sizes, or a 2-way setup for bass, which just makes it 2.1. Someone truly serious about music would invest tons of money into headphones instead of speakers.

headphones will also be used but ill be using the headphone out on my amp to run them, no point using the ones on the soundcard if i can amp them plus i dont think a STX will drive myt HD800s or PS1000??
the subs are different models, but they are split L+R. the fact that there diffrent models makes no dif, the l+R does tho. ie truck from left to right, i have one sub to the left and 1 to right so it rumbles from LtoR
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

Bass, just like extremely high frequencies, is hard to locate. It's common sense. Ever struggle to find which smoke alarm is going off?
ive never known a smoke alarm to produce bass?! just high pitch noises, which are hard to locate cos there A) LOUD B)there to warn you of a fire not sound pretty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

Subbed because I'm looking for a really good stereo option for my Ccar-puter setup as well.


I've been having a hard time looking for a good "2.2" set up like the OP as well. If I'm not mistaken, the OP like myself, is looking for a solid 2.1 output card, but then using the amps to actually separate the low frequencies going to the two subs. Just some random numbers from my car setup here since I can't remember my exact settings, but I had a 10" deep sub running off an amp that was set to 35 - 180 Hz and a 12" shallow sub set to 10 - 50 Hz. Both these amps come off the LFE channel of my sound card. Then my front pair of speakers was set to 150+ Hz and the rear pair was set to 100+ Hz with the separate tweeters set much higher. Both pairs are also coming from just one connector on my sound card using a 3.5 > RCA cable, then being split at the first amp to go to the second amp.


It is still coming off a 2.1 output from my current sound card, but switching to on-board is a very noticeble difference since I'm splitting the outputs to two amps, so having that strong initial output is pretty much out of most on-board card's capabilities.


Staying tuned to see more opinions on sound card choice though.
axi you can use an STX and split the channels with a y spltter and youll be golden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen 
Two independent bass channels is not pointless, in a bi-amped setup, you have stereo bass and it does make a difference. Lot's of us do not want our sound processed and summed into one channel. It does not sound the same as stereo bass. While some bass is "omni-directional", this is not and accurate description, nor an excuse to sum the bass to one channel. (In this case I think the OP is doing mono bass, but nonetheless it is worth mentioning.)

On-board sound can sound and is crappy, on my old HP it was OK, on my new Asrock, the sound is ****, so I had to get a sound card, this is on a MB that is 5 years newer. Onboard sound is not "passable these days", in my case, it was a step backwards.

"Someone truly serious about music would invest tons of money into headphones instead of speakers.", truly the most retarded thing I have read here so far. While headphones can sound very nice, and be used for reference in some cases, it is not "better". Headphones have their own set of problems with sound reproduction, specifically extreme channel separation that can cause headaches depending on the source you are listening too. A "live" presentation is more realistic in an open environment when some sound from the left can bleed into the right, this is how us humans locate things.

Don't believe me? Have a listen to an early stereo track like a Beatles album, the extreme channel separation in the headphones cause some people's brain to bleed, play the same track on an "open-air" setup and it sounds good, it sounds more like it was intended.

"Bass is hard to locate"- no it isn't, if I watch a movie where a truck goes thundering by from left to right, it sounds better when the bass comes from the left and fades out the right, not a hard concept to grasp.

A DAC vs a sound card is purely semantics for the most part, they are the same thing. Aside from a DAC usually being attached via USB which causes it's own issues with jitter etc.

I am 95% certain you will notice an improvement with a decent sound card. The only way you would not is if your MB had amazing sound and you bought a cheap sound card.

In my case the Asrock board comes with "ALC892", which was not as good as the "ALCXXX" that was on my older computer. Also this number does not tell all, but just a guideline.

I also agree with the OP about 5.1, 7.1, useless drivel, it rarely works how it is supposed to and most times it is heavily processed. Music is recorded in stereo, movies still sound great in stereo, the surround does not work on most TV stations. It is not worth the hassle in my opinion for the little amount of time that the surround works properly.
Simulated surround is terrible, again try to avoid any kind of post recording processing. Surround may have a useful place in gaming, but that's about it.
1 yes 100% agree.
2 100% agree again 5.1 is pointless,

id much rather have 2 full range speakers and a decent sub over a set of 5 satellite speakers and a sub. and dont get me started on 5.1 headphone WHERE DO YOU PUT THE SUB IS THERE A SUB IN ONLY 1 EAR?! YOUD HAVE TO BE RETARDED NOT TO WORK THIS OUT! SIMULATED 5.1 IS SO POINTLESS!!! rant/



guys decision time, do i buy the STX or stick with onboard or get a dac.
post #23 of 51
So am I getting this right that the REL subs you have are not active - they don't have an amp built into them?

If the subs do have their own amps built in, you want to feed them directly from the sound card using whatever built in crossover functionality it has, so you just feed the low frequencies to them, and feed the rest of the signal to the main speakers.

If the subs are passive (they need an external amp) how are you amping them (and the main speakers) - are you using poweramps (with no volume adjustment) or integrated amps (with volume adjustment)?
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post #24 of 51
The sounds are hard to locate because our hearing, just like our eyes, have a response curve. The outer parts of the ears that give directional cues just don't do it for bass or for high pitched sounds.

So you have a large sub on the left and smaller on the right (or vice-versa)?

The STX will drive those phones, but IMO solid state amps don't make high end phones like that shine.

Surround not working has zero to do with the technology itself. It has to do with mastering, just like how mastering makes or breaks music. Surround for TV is a joke. Dialogue is always going to in the center, music in the fronts, and laugh tracks are all that take up the surround channels. It's not meant to be some surround sound demo showcase, just to give ambiance. Surround sound is not pointless. You are either listening to horribly-mixed tracks, never had it set-up correctly, or have not hear a setup that was correctly set-up.

Music in 5.1 is stupid.

5.1 headphones are pointless.

HRTF kind of works.

Don't waste the money on a "DAC." The STX's DAC has insane specs, and any [unlikely] difference in sound is not going to be from specs, but just differences in coloration. I also doubt putting them through some retro (Can I correctly assume this?) Marantz amp is also going to reveal any difference between the two.
 
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post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUDJ View Post

Guys, please don't just offer blind advice. This guy already has great speakers and subs and doesn't need to upgrade (that wasn't what he was asking anyway, plus those speakers posted above would probably be a downgrade).

Downgrade? are you serious? A5x/CMS 40 will run circles around his BW.

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/technology/x-art
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

HRTF kind of works.
Don't waste the money on a "DAC." The STX's DAC has insane specs, and any [unlikely] difference in sound is not going to be from specs, but just differences in coloration

Finally good post here.
Edited by psyside - 11/13/12 at 9:09am
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post #26 of 51
And about sound location...our ears/brain don't do it that well. Try figuring out if something is behind you or in front of you blindfolded. You can't. All senses work together. Our directional cues rely on sight to be accurate. Go outside of the frequency range that our outer ears are "tuned" to reflect, and things get worse.
 
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post #27 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyside View Post

Downgrade? are you serious? A5x/CMS 40 will run circles around his BW.
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/technology/x-art
Finally good post here.

thanks but speakers are not up for question here, my B&Ws sound just how i like em and they cut off just right for the rels to pickup.

to the guy who asked, i have 10/12" sub about 2foot to left and right of me.
post #28 of 51
loving all the non audio-phile comments in here telling this guy it's wasted effort and how to change his setup.

this guy has an amazing set-up and I wish i could have it! if he wants better sound card to push those speakers to their potential, then he SHOULD, as it would be a waste to hook a great setup to a standard mobo output. yes they are better than they used to be but by no means capable of driving a high end set-up like this.

anywho continue on!

(sorry I don't have any advice, but best of luck)
post #29 of 51
And one sub is driven by the left channel and the other driven by the right channel?
 
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post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covert_Death View Post

loving all the non audio-phile comments in here telling this guy it's wasted effort and how to change his setup.
this guy has an amazing set-up and I wish i could have it! if he wants better sound card to push those speakers to their potential, then he SHOULD, as it would be a waste to hook a great setup to a standard mobo output. yes they are better than they used to be but by no means capable of driving a high end set-up like this.
anywho continue on!
(sorry I don't have any advice, but best of luck)

smile.gif cheers buddy! thumb.gif
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