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Critique my build - $600 budget build - Page 4

post #31 of 94
Antec 520 Neo Eco expires midnight Pacific Time $54.99 - $15 code EMCYTZT2514 = $39.99 before $15 rebate = $24.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030&Tpk=17-371-030&nm_mc=EMC-GD111212&cm_mmc=EMC-GD111212-_-index-_-Item-_-17-371-030

Cheap but not bad
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147023
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147159

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Elite-430-RC-430-KWN1/dp/B003O8J11E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352774128&sr=8-1&keywords=computer+case

http://www.amazon.com/GAMMA-Classic-Interior-Chassis-Black/dp/B002UDK9U6/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1352774128&sr=8-10&keywords=computer+case

http://www.amazon.com/Raidmax-Tornado-Tower-Gaming-ATX-238WU/dp/B002NGO5NW/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1352774257&sr=8-33&keywords=computer+case
post #32 of 94
*shudders*
That case/PSU.
I had it once.
Horrible case, horrible PSU.
DO NOT BUY!!!!!!
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post #33 of 94
Do not use that Logisys or the power supply inside it. Get an Antec 300.

The Area 51 is one of the flimsiest cases i've ever owned and those Logisys power supplies...could kill the rest of your components easily.
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post #34 of 94
i think this should be great for you
PCPartPicker part list

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($124.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($67.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Samsung 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card ($50.60 @ NCIX US)
Case: NZXT Source 210 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Green 630W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Zalman MZ230ED 23.0" Monitor ($113.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ CompUSA)
Base Total: $612.52
Mail-in Rebates: -$30.00
Shipping: $8.99
Total: $591.51

Hope you like it pal smile.gifthumb.gif
Edited by Tarun - 11/12/12 at 8:37pm
post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsteiner View Post

You might want to think about an APU build with a 7670 that will crossfire with the APU. This should be attainable in this price range and would give you a newer platform that will have better longevity.

This should be a last ditch resort if you truly can not get a discrete solution in budget OR if the build has absolutely no need for "good" GPU performance. APUs are best leveraged in mixed use extreme budget machines. The GPU performance of an APU is respectable considering the integrated competition and typical performance of integrated GPUs of the past, however, can't compete with discrete solutions except on the very low end. As soon as you hybrid X-fire these, you're just over-paying for a band-aid solution to a problem that won't go away until the switch to a discrete card is made.

Starting off a build as a hybrid X-fired configuration is a HORRIFIC TRADEOFF that should never be made at the onset of a build. The HD6670 gets purchased AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE THE MISTAKE of buying into an APU thinking it would have enough GPU grunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAKATTACK View Post

Thanks guys. I would like to stick with quad core machines since dual core is becoming fairly outdated. Now the question is....go with AM3 or FM1....

Having "more cores" is not a straight forward solution to "not being outdated." One could make the same argument for buying into a CPU architecture that is several years old.

A quad core phenom II 955/965:
...can execute on up to 4 integer or 4 FPU units simultaneously, any combination of up to 4 threads scales with perfect linearity. The older traditional architecture and mediocre cache performance results in a still more-than-acceptable per-core performance for modern machines for most peoples needs and very predictable performance scaling with no special conditional requirements to achieve good scaling. Slightly out-performs i3 in highly parallel integer heavy workloads. Beats quad FX and i3 in most parallel FPU workloads. The now hard to find thuban variety was respectably power friendly in it's day at 95W TDP. The older Deneb based 125W chips on the market today represent very poor compute/watt performance. The sub $100 pricing of this chip is competitive, however, keep in mind that it should not be used on a cheap motherboard with a small VRM package. Cost to implement can prove higher than expected when you factor in a quiet cooling solution and a motherboard that can be trusted to handle the chip, this is compounded if you intend to overclock. The high implementation cost to overclock this chip is superseded by a similar price i5 build.

A dual core i3 Sandy/Ivy:
...can execute on it's integer and FPU modules simultaneously per cycle per core. Up to 2 integer and 2 FPU calculations (4 threads) per cycle is made possible though a fetch/decode/scheduler configuration that is scaled up from the traditional dual core approach. Superb cache performance and refined architecture proves highly effective in per cycle/core performance. Performance scaling above 2 threads is conditionally dependent on the type of workload. The i3 beats stock clocked AMD quads in less parallel workloads and trades blows in parallel workloads that are mixed FP/integer (this is common). As low as 47W TDP makes this the most power friendly option in the comparison here, with the highest compute/watt ratio. Known for superb performance in 1-3 threaded games that are highly sensitive to on-chip cache performance (like SC2's (supcom and starcraft). No overclocking possible. The typical $100-145 price range on these chips is competitive for their level of performance and low cost to implement (cheap motherboards are fine and the stock fan can be configured to run quiet without a problem!).

A quad core FX chip:
...contains 4 integer and 4 FPU units, however, has a fetch/decode/scheduler configuration that is scaled down from a traditional quad (pairs of integer cores are sharing fetch and decode units, and pairs of FPUs are sharing a single FPU scheduler) . Turbo core is used to accelerate less threaded tasks and software is now catching up to properly schedule tasks to separate modules first. The result, is conditionally dependent scaling beyond 1-2 threads that is better than an i3 but worse than phenom II. Poor cache performance and a very young architecture translate to poor per-cycle performance (worse than phenom II). Typically beats i3 and Phenom II X4 in parallel integer workloads. Trades blows with Phenom II and i3 in mixed parallel workloads. Beats Phenom II in most less threaded workloads through raw clock speed. High power consumption means similar cost to implement and cool quietly as phenom II. Pick Vishera to improve the compute/watt performance considerably. Best value with these chips is going to be a mild overclock attainable on stock or cheap coolers. Investing more for a high overclock is again, superseded by i5 as the smarter implementation for the money. The $10 difference between the FX4300 and 6300 basically nullifies the the 4300 as a contender in my eyes. The extra module on the 6300 guarantees a win over the i3 in parallel workloads every time. Cost to implement after factoring in a motherboard you can trust to run the chip is still higher than the i3, but Vishera has certainly helped the argument for an FX build.

One thing that I have found in my research, is that currently, a hyper-threaded Sandy bridge core, has similar compute performance as a bulldozer module. A hyperthreaded Ivy bridge has similar compute performance as a Piledriver module. Clock rates, cache sizes, and workload cause fluctuations in results, but that rule of thumb holds close to true often enough that it is a good "guide" to follow on your path to finding the best value for your build.



The point I am making here is not that the dual core Intel solution, OR the AMD quad solution is better, rather, that there are TRADEOFFS to be considered. Don't dismiss, rather, honestly compare your options.


Nobody asked... What is this machine going to be USED FOR???

Eric
Edited by mdocod - 11/13/12 at 12:38am
     
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post #36 of 94
Thread Starter 

Thanks Brasslad. These look like good inexpensive options for a computer for a young boy....which is exactly who I'm building this for! Awesome suggestions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by serverboy View Post

*shudders*
That case/PSU.
I had it once.
Horrible case, horrible PSU.
DO NOT BUY!!!!!!

oh oh, which are you talking about Server? ARe you talking about the items Brasslad suggested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

Do not use that Logisys or the power supply inside it. Get an Antec 300.
The Area 51 is one of the flimsiest cases i've ever owned and those Logisys power supplies...could kill the rest of your components easily.

Thanks for the info M3T4....that seems to be the consensus. I'm staying away from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarun View Post

i think this should be great for you
PCPartPicker part list
CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($124.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($67.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Samsung 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card ($50.60 @ NCIX US)
Case: NZXT Source 210 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Green 630W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Zalman MZ230ED 23.0" Monitor ($113.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ CompUSA)
Base Total: $612.52
Mail-in Rebates: -$30.00
Shipping: $8.99
Total: $591.51
Hope you like it pal smile.gifthumb.gif

Looks good, but I also need to buy a keyboard and mouse. Also, I'm afraid that GPU won't be powerful enough to play portal 2 or Arkham city...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

This should be a last ditch resort if you truly can not get a discrete solution in budget OR if the build has absolutely no need for "good" GPU performance. APUs are best leveraged in mixed use extreme budget machines. The GPU performance of an APU is respectable considering the integrated competition and typical performance of integrated GPUs of the past, however, can't compete with discrete solutions except on the very low end. As soon as you hybrid X-fire these, you're just over-paying for a band-aid solution to a problem that won't go away until the switch to a discrete card is made.
Starting off a build as a hybrid X-fired configuration is a HORRIFIC TRADEOFF that should never be made at the onset of a build. The HD6670 gets purchased AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE THE MISTAKE of buying into an APU thinking it would have enough GPU grunt.
Having "more cores" is not a straight forward solution to "not being outdated." One could make the same argument for buying into a CPU architecture that is several years old.
A quad core phenom II 955/965:
...can execute on up to 4 integer or 4 FPU units simultaneously, any combination of up to 4 threads scales with perfect linearity. The older traditional architecture and mediocre cache performance results in a still more-than-acceptable per-core performance for modern machines for most peoples needs and very predictable performance scaling with no special conditional requirements to achieve good scaling. Slightly out-performs i3 in highly parallel integer heavy workloads. Beats quad FX and i3 in most parallel FPU workloads. The now hard to find thuban variety was respectably power friendly in it's day at 95W TDP. The older Deneb based 125W chips on the market today represent very poor compute/watt performance. The sub $100 pricing of this chip is competitive, however, keep in mind that it should not be used on a cheap motherboard with a small VRM package. Cost to implement can prove higher than expected when you factor in a quiet cooling solution and a motherboard that can be trusted to handle the chip, this is compounded if you intend to overclock. The high implementation cost to overclock this chip is superseded by a similar price i5 build.
A dual core i3 Sandy/Ivy:
...can execute on it's integer and FPU modules simultaneously per cycle per core. Up to 2 integer and 2 FPU calculations (4 threads) per cycle is made possible though a fetch/decode/scheduler configuration that is scaled up from the traditional dual core approach. Superb cache performance and refined architecture proves highly effective in per cycle/core performance. Performance scaling above 2 threads is conditionally dependent on the type of workload. The i3 beats stock clocked AMD quads in less parallel workloads and trades blows in parallel workloads that are mixed FP/integer (this is common). As low as 47W TDP makes this the most power friendly option in the comparison here, with the highest compute/watt ratio. Known for superb performance in 1-3 threaded games that are highly sensitive to on-chip cache performance (like SC2's (supcom and starcraft). No overclocking possible. The typical $100-145 price range on these chips is competitive for their level of performance and low cost to implement (cheap motherboards are fine and the stock fan can be configured to run quiet without a problem!).
A quad core FX chip:
...contains 4 integer and 4 FPU units, however, has a fetch/decode/scheduler configuration that is scaled down from a traditional quad (pairs of integer cores are sharing fetch and decode units, and pairs of FPUs are sharing a single FPU scheduler) . Turbo core is used to accelerate less threaded tasks and software is now catching up to properly schedule tasks to separate modules first. The result, is conditionally dependent scaling beyond 1-2 threads that is better than an i3 but worse than phenom II. Poor cache performance and a very young architecture translate to poor per-cycle performance (worse than phenom II). Typically beats i3 and Phenom II X4 in parallel integer workloads. Trades blows with Phenom II and i3 in mixed parallel workloads. Beats Phenom II in most less threaded workloads through raw clock speed. High power consumption means similar cost to implement and cool quietly as phenom II. Pick Vishera to improve the compute/watt performance considerably. Best value with these chips is going to be a mild overclock attainable on stock or cheap coolers. Investing more for a high overclock is again, superseded by i5 as the smarter implementation for the money. The $10 difference between the FX4300 and 6300 basically nullifies the the 4300 as a contender in my eyes. The extra module on the 6300 guarantees a win over the i3 in parallel workloads every time. Cost to implement after factoring in a motherboard you can trust to run the chip is still higher than the i3, but Vishera has certainly helped the argument for an FX build.
One thing that I have found in my research, is that currently, a hyper-threaded Sandy bridge core, has similar compute performance as a bulldozer module. A hyperthreaded Ivy bridge has similar compute performance as a Piledriver module. Clock rates, cache sizes, and workload cause fluctuations in results, but that rule of thumb holds close to true often enough that it is a good "guide" to follow on your path to finding the best value for your build.
The point I am making here is not that the dual core Intel solution, OR the AMD quad solution is better, rather, that there are TRADEOFFS to be considered. Don't dismiss, rather, honestly compare your options.
Nobody asked... What is this machine going to be USED FOR???
Eric


Wow! Thanks Eric. Lots of great info! It seems like quad cores are being mentioned more in games and applications as the minimum. Were the dual core chips some people suggested HT so as to act like quad cores? I’m assuming so judging from what you said above.
One thing I want to make sure I do is have a motherboard that will still be able to have a newer, faster chip drop in it several years down the road if need be. Not sure how that affects what you posted above?
This computer is being built for my 7 year old boy for xmas. He plays on some online educational websites but also likes portal and portal 2. Also, I catch him everyone once in awhile taking it upon himself to load up bf3 on my rig and play it (NOT HAPPENING!). I think he would like Arkham City. So this computer will be for some gaming, surfing, checking email, etc….
Thoughts?
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3820 For Me
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post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

A quad core FX chip:
...contains 4 integer and 4 FPU units, however, has a fetch/decode/scheduler configuration that is scaled down from a traditional quad (pairs of integer cores are sharing fetch and decode units, and pairs of FPUs are sharing a single FPU scheduler) . Turbo core is used to accelerate less threaded tasks and software is now catching up to properly schedule tasks to separate modules first. The result, is conditionally dependent scaling beyond 1-2 threads that is better than an i3 but worse than phenom II. Poor cache performance and a very young architecture translate to poor per-cycle performance (worse than phenom II). Typically beats i3 and Phenom II X4 in parallel integer workloads. Trades blows with Phenom II and i3 in mixed parallel workloads. Beats Phenom II in most less threaded workloads through raw clock speed. High power consumption means similar cost to implement and cool quietly as phenom II. Pick Vishera to improve the compute/watt performance considerably. Best value with these chips is going to be a mild overclock attainable on stock or cheap coolers. Investing more for a high overclock is again, superseded by i5 as the smarter implementation for the money. The $10 difference between the FX4300 and 6300 basically nullifies the the 4300 as a contender in my eyes. The extra module on the 6300 guarantees a win over the i3 in parallel workloads every time. Cost to implement after factoring in a motherboard you can trust to run the chip is still higher than the i3, but Vishera has certainly helped the argument for an FX build.

Good points and well written, however, I must point out a slight typo in there. A quad "core" FX chip contains 2 modules, which, altogehter means 4x integer units but only 2x 256 bit FPU's which can, in theory, execute 4x 128 bit chunks, however, that is only the case if the program in question is using the latest vector extension set and most programs dont. At least I personally would count the FPU's as single 256 bit units based on the fact that theres only 2 floating point deciders on a such "quad core".
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post #38 of 94
Grab the A10-5800K and a $60 6670 and Hybrid Crossfire. It will handle Portal for sure. That way your not buying into a 3 year old AMD architecture.
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post #39 of 94
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Good points and well written, however, I must point out a slight typo in there. A quad "core" FX chip contains 2 modules, which, altogehter means 4x integer units but only 2x 256 bit FPU's which can, in theory, execute 4x 128 bit chunks, however, that is only the case if the program in question is using the latest vector extension set and most programs dont. At least I personally would count the FPU's as single 256 bit units based on the fact that theres only 2 floating point deciders on a such "quad core".

Good info, but WAY over my head!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

Grab the A10-5800K and a $60 6670 and Hybrid Crossfire. It will handle Portal for sure. That way your not buying into a 3 year old AMD architecture.

Would that work? The onboard gpu says 7660D. I have no idea about how to xfire those two....or any cards for that matter.
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3820 For Me
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2600k overkill
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post #40 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAKATTACK View Post

Good info, but WAY over my head!
Would that work? The onboard gpu says 7660D. I have no idea about how to xfire those two....or any cards for that matter.

Yes it will work. It says right on the side of the A8/A10 box. Make sure you get the the 6670 not the 6770. They're completely different.
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AMD has Ryzen
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