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Haiku OS Alpha4 release - Page 2

post #11 of 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Well yes, you said that already. However that doesn't actually answer my question as there's several BSDs in active development and they don't all share driver compatibility.
I'd wager it would be FreeBSD though.

been so long since I looked, they have a freebasd driver compatability layer of some kind in the networking stack. Makes sense, recycle where you can.
Quote:
I appreciate you didn't say that, but your post was a little ambiguous with the way you referenced to Unix when Haiku / BeOS was really just aiming for a degree of POSIX compliance. Given that most people on here should be familiar with POSIX, I thought it was probably worth clarifying things a little.

I've noticed you have a tendancy to nitpick and henpeck allot of conversations. I'm gonna be honest, its a fiarly irritating, annoying behavior, and it is fairly pervasive in the FOSS community, particularly amongst the linux/unix users generally speaking. I know what I wrote, I know what it meant, and nothing else was inffered from it.
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Also, I believe ELF is part of POSIX.

iirc elf was a intel thing back in the day

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In fact quite a number of Unix concepts are. POSIX and Unix certification are largely based on each other (I forget which came first though). It's just ones an open specification (like LSB) and the other is proprietary.
So does nearly every OS.

Posix is a complex standard.It could almost be called a way to intergrate unix into other operating systems. Like a Virtual machine, before we had those. Here lets have a Unix layer anywhere we want it. Great idea.
Quote:
Cool, I will do then

its very nice these days, the Haiku kernel is more performance oriented in terms of throughput then the BeOS kernel was, plus its had some design enhancements likely related to lessons learned from the beos kernel. IIRC it is around 100% faster then BeOS in raw performance in many areas. Scheduling is still a work in progress, but it works pretty good most of the time.
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These days that's largely right, but there is (or rather was) an OS. UNIX (trademarked in upper case) is an OS, Unix Certification (title case) is a certification. However Unix Certification is a very strict process (to the point where the same OS compiled for AMD64 would need to be re-certified even if the i686 counterpart was already accredited) and a proprietary certification at that. So most people just go for POSIX compliance instead.
This is why I made the distinction about Haiku / BeOS being partially POSIX compliant rather than "based on Unix". It might seem like nitpicking, but I wasn't having a dig at what you wrote, I just didn't want your post to be misinterpreted by others thinking BeOS was an ancestor of UNIX like FreeBSD and Solaris are.

Most every operating system by todays standard is to some degree, a ancestor of unix, Just using the C language, makes it a ancestor of unix, the concepts of everything is a file etc, or a shared time system "we call that multitasking these days" also a unix concept.

To some degree, Unix simply got their first, so in a way everyone emulates with modern desktop OS's unix to some degree in one or many ways. So almost every operating system in the market, is just a bit unix somewhere.

Which was what I said.

anyhow, have a great night.
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

I've noticed you have a tendancy to nitpick and henpeck allot of conversations. I'm gonna be honest, its a fiarly irritating, annoying behavior, and it is fairly pervasive in the FOSS community, particularly amongst the linux/unix users generally speaking. I know what I wrote, I know what it meant, and nothing else was inffered from it.
Oh grow up. If you can't take a two way conversation then don't bother posting.

I wasn't criticising you or even stating you were wrong. I was just expanding on your post as it was a tad misleading.

Saying "xyz is based on Unix" conjurers up a very different image in peoples minds than saying "xyz is aiming for POSIX compliance". Particularly when people often avoid saying the former about Linux to make a source code distinction; and Linux was pretty much intended to be a UNIX clone. So given that BeOS had nothing to do with Unix what-so-ever, your description was pretty crap (but obviously back then I had a higher option of you so cared enough not to be rude rolleyes.gif )
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

iirc elf was a intel thing back in the day
Possibly, but that doesn't mean it's not a part of POSIX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Posix is a complex standard.It could almost be called a way to intergrate unix into other operating systems. Like a Virtual machine, before we had those. Here lets have a Unix layer anywhere we want it. Great idea.
Indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Most every operating system by todays standard is to some degree, a ancestor of unix, Just using the C language, makes it a ancestor of unix, the concepts of everything is a file etc, or a shared time system "we call that multitasking these days" also a unix concept.
To some degree, Unix simply got their first, so in a way everyone emulates with modern desktop OS's unix to some degree in one or many ways. So almost every operating system in the market, is just a bit unix somewhere.
Erm, not really no. It's a bit of a stretch to argue that anything programmed in C is an ancestor of UNIX. Anything derived from UNIX code (even if that code has since been replaced with new code) would be an ancestor of UNIX. Plus I'm not really sure you understand what time sharing is, because it's more than just multi-tasking. Using your Windows desktop example, none of the consumer versions of Windows are a time sharing OS as it only allows one simultaneous user (yeah the core OS is multi-user - but in TSS terms, you can only have one active user running their desktop environment at a time).

But going back to your point, Windows is actually based on / influenced by VMS - which is another mainframe OS and one that's as old as UNIX is (give or take a couple of years - both were release early 70s IIRC).

I know it shouldn't, but I find it a little annoying when people lump all software to one pigeon-hole. Like how they say "Apple invented the smartphone etc". And like here saying that all OSs stem from UNIX when there was a whole wealth of other projects going on and which also had a big impact on the technology we use today (not that I'm trying to undersell the accomplishments that Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie and others had achieved at Bell Labs either. I'm just saying not everything is of UNIX descent).

And seeming as I'm being accused of a nitpick anyway: time sharing existed before UNIX. tongue.gif However I do agree with your sentiment that UNIX was one of the forerunners (I wouldn't have even mentioned that if I wasn't already being accused of nitpicking; but as I now have nothing to lose.... tongue.gif )
Edited by Plan9 - 11/14/12 at 5:23pm
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Oh grow up. If you can't take a two way conversation then don't bother posting.
I wasn't criticising you or even stating you were wrong. I was just expanding on your post as it was a tad misleading.
r I do agree with your sentiment that UNIX was one of the forerunners (I wouldn't have even mentioned that if I wasn't already being accused of nitpicking; but as I now have nothing to lose.... tongue.gif

Seriously, stop the trolling, its tiring,
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Oh grow up. If you can't take a two way conversation then don't bother posting.
I wasn't criticising you or even stating you were wrong. I was just expanding on your post as it was a tad misleading.
r I do agree with your sentiment that UNIX was one of the forerunners (I wouldn't have even mentioned that if I wasn't already being accused of nitpicking; but as I now have nothing to lose.... tongue.gif

Seriously, stop the trolling, its tiring,

while I think the nitpicking and petty arguing is pointless and coming from both sides, I wouldn't call either trolling
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah

GUISE

STAHP


SRSLY
Edited by Rocket Lawnchair - 11/14/12 at 8:34pm
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post #16 of 22
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Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Seriously, stop the trolling, its tiring,

And then infotmative posts turn into flames.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Seriously, stop the trolling, its tiring,

I genuinely wasn't trolling but I can totally see how some of my comments were a little heavy handed (though my closing remark about "having nothing to lose" was intended to be a joke - which in hindsight I can see I badly judged redface.gif )

Truce?
post #18 of 22
Downloading now, I always thought BeOS was really neat.
post #19 of 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

Downloading now, I always thought BeOS was really neat.

Come aboard,

They also re-released alpha 4 due 2 two bugs that were cuasing some very serious grief to users.

So alpha 4.1 was released last night.


welcome to the dark side
post #20 of 22
Well it installed fine in a VirtualBox VM anyway at least tongue.gif I'll look into 4.1 though.
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