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[ScienceDaily]New Way to Split Water Molecules Into Hydrogen and Oxygen - Page 4

post #31 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnetonka16 View Post

Yes but at what scale? Do you need 1000 square miles of land to power a small town? Even if solar panels were free, at their current efficiency they're not going anywhere fast. (I know they're different, but the idea I'm talking about is the same)
What the article is saying is that there is no need for conventional solar panels with this method, simply a sheet of iron oxide and water being hit by sunlight, according to the researchers. It's supposed to be much cheaper and more efficient than using modern systems.
    
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post #32 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Whatever dude you forget about the many other gases that are much stronger greenhousers that are released as a result of burning HC's, methane itself having about 4x more impact than CO2 per ton.

In fact, Methane is actually 21 times more powerful than CO2 in terms of 'greenhouse capacity'.

http://epa.gov/methane/scientific.html

Also to chime in... hydrocarbons might be a great fuel for combustion but in terms of energy generation, combustion processes are terrible.

imo though... The future is in fusion, and the perfect fuel? He3

Still, with hydrogen fuel cells, clean hydrogen has a place in niche high efficiency energy generation. I doubt we'll ever see a true fuel cells in our vehicles but for portable generators? hell yeah... I'm sure the military is frothing at the mouth at the prospect of what fuel cells could do for silent ops.

And who knows... in 10-15 years we just might have chevy volts with hydrogen fuel cells on board instead of gasoline generators!
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post #33 of 89
Now just do this with carbon and oxygen etc.
 
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post #34 of 89
If you want to split hydrogen and oxygen, pour water on a magnesium fire. Works a treat.
Quote:
Even more seriously, it is possible that an attempt was made to extinguish burning magnesium and other chemicals with water. As a result the catalyst for the climactic explosion could have been produced. Magnesium, which burns reaching a temperature of over 1000 degrees Celsius, splits water into its chemical components of hydrogen and oxygen. Oxyhydrogen and a subsequent detonation is the result.

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post #35 of 89
I was bored lol
hmmm gas has an engery density of 46 MJ per KG
While Hydrogen has 123 MJ per KG but at 700 bar/10,000 PSI

watt = j per sec
Because 1 watt times one second equals one joule, 1 kilowatt-hour is 1000 watts times 3600 seconds, or 3.6 megajoules
123/3.6 = 34.16 KW/H

1L = 1KG of water

note 1 L of water water has 111 moles of H

Random braining storming I hope my math is right, just could not find out how many moles per KG at 700 bar

and this is most definitely not taking into account efficiency lol,
post #36 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Of Pain View Post

It's not a good thing, because we don't want the carbon dioxide released back into the atmosphere.
Quit breathing.
post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

I'm not concerned by global warming. The world's temperature has fluctuated wildly long before human's were even around. GW is more about fear of change than anything else. Even if humans had zero impact on the climate, oceans would still continue to rise and fall.
True, burning fossils fuels makes more than just CO2. It addition to making CO2 it produces a lot of pollutants, as carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen combine in random ways. These compounds present a short term inconvenience, but no long term danger. They are unstable and over time break down into more common compounds, which is the reason they are not readily found in nature.
Both. Fossil fuels today are an energy source. They contain millions of years of solar energy.
But hydrocarbons could be used to store and transport energy collected by humans, whether that be from wind, nuclear, etc. That is the idea behind hydrogen fuel cells. Use an electricity source to create hydrogen, then transport the hydrogen to the point of use(eg a car).

To expand on this, with current technology, liquid fuels are essential for transportation - and that means hydrocarbons. H2 storage isn't there yet, and electric is too limited. We can produce hydrocarbons renewably though, by using CO2 from the atmosphere to form hydrocarbons, and that means a NET zero release of CO2 into the atmosphere. And if humanity ever gets serious about global warming, I think this will be the way to go. People saying that we need better battery storage or H2 storage are falling for a ruse. We already have the tech for net zero transportation today. The problem isn't tech, it's politics and greed.
post #38 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzalias View Post

Quit breathing.

My breathing is negligible compared to our aeroplanes and industry.

Learn ratios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicmew View Post

To expand on this, with current technology, liquid fuels are essential for transportation - and that means hydrocarbons. H2 storage isn't there yet, and electric is too limited. We can produce hydrocarbons renewably though, by using CO2 from the atmosphere to form hydrocarbons, and that means a NET zero release of CO2 into the atmosphere. And if humanity ever gets serious about global warming, I think this will be the way to go. People saying that we need better battery storage or H2 storage are falling for a ruse. We already have the tech for net zero transportation today. The problem isn't tech, it's politics and greed.

I didn't realise the net CO2 release was zero, I suppose they are harmless then.
post #39 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zdub303 View Post

In fact, Methane is actually 21 times more powerful than CO2 in terms of 'greenhouse capacity'.
http://epa.gov/methane/scientific.html
Also to chime in... hydrocarbons might be a great fuel for combustion but in terms of energy generation, combustion processes are terrible.
imo though... The future is in fusion, and the perfect fuel? He3
Still, with hydrogen fuel cells, clean hydrogen has a place in niche high efficiency energy generation. I doubt we'll ever see a true fuel cells in our vehicles but for portable generators? hell yeah... I'm sure the military is frothing at the mouth at the prospect of what fuel cells could do for silent ops.
And who knows... in 10-15 years we just might have chevy volts with hydrogen fuel cells on board instead of gasoline generators!

I'm on this team.
post #40 of 89
This is very promising tech. Idk why people say hydrogen is a useless energy. It may take more energy to make it than it is stored but that is the way every energy medium is. Even fossil fuels that are already exisisting take more energy to extract/refine than they give back. Same thing with batteries.

Also by making the hydrogen with solar it is minimal cost especially considering the time the solar panels will keep producing for tens of years assuming no physical damage from external force. As someone already mention the have solid state bydrogen storage where the hydrogen is stored or attached to metal. No high psi or combustability required so it is very stable.

The solar efficiency record in real world use is 33% while the record in a lab is 43% achieved by G.E. Per yard of the earth at the best time and lattitudes recieve 1 kw per sec. Germany produced the same amount of solar power as the U.S. did with nuclear power in 2011 percentage wise which is about 20 %. Obviously 20% in America is more than 20% percent is in Germany. The point being is it proves how viable it is and the fact that Germany recieves less sunlight than London or Seattle. Why do some people some blame solar on not being efficient enough when every technology we use is extremely inefficient. If you go by that logic than the car or computer would have never been created.

It's also economical but its not being mass produced and when compared to exsisting tech that is mass produced and is also subsidised only then is it more expensive. All this was only talking about solar. With all other alternative/sustainable non-polluting sources like wind, geo-thermal, wave, pizeo, any thermal, its amazing and disturbing we are not moving away from fossil fuels more rapidly.

This is all true and is not coming from any bias. I love that fossil fuels provided as much as they have for this country and we would not be here if it were not for them But it is obvious that it has reached a time when it is time to switch from a economic, environment and security standpoint. I feel for the people that would lose jobs but if as a country/world we set a date 5 years or so in advance that would be plenty of time for the change. Companies making money will never make the switch until it more profitable for them which would be a very long time b/c they want to milk the fossil fuel market until it is exhausted.

As for global warming or more appropriately climate change there is no denying that in the past the Earth has gone through wild swings in temp and climate. The huge difference now is the pace of the change. Any warming or ice age happened very slowly i.e. tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years whereas man-made is happening much more rapidly to the extent that plant and animal life will be extremely more likely to fall victim to those changes and obviously affect human life. To help put in perspective the sun has solar flares that are billions of tons and are ranging from 1/5 to the size of the son itself. The son is a million times bigger than the earth son when we release billions of tons of a greenhouse gas every year for many decades plus all other years it is obvious that would have to affect the Earth.

I am in no ways trying to make anyone mad but if you look at climate change objectively and critically think about it, it becomes apparent how simple a problem it is. If you do not believe in it there is no point in arguing b/c it is true and assuming climate change is wrong we need to get off fossil fuels for economic, security and other environmental reasons.

Again lets not start a pointless arguement and derailment of this thread. We only need solutions and those solutions are upon us. I am not some hippie and anyone who uses that term does so in a negative way only b/c the stigma exsists, while also not contributing to the solution in any way. Also for anyone who believes in God they should want to take care of the Earth.

Thanks for reading and I hope this only inspired people while promoting critical thinking without bickering and pointless argueing. redface.gifbiggrin.gif
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