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[Chip] More GTX780 Details - Page 10

post #91 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanNgo View Post

I wonder when will we have the GTX 7000 series rolleyes.gif

welli would prefer a(nother) GTX 8800 !
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post #92 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

This rumour would mean that it's using GK110, not GK114 (What is meant to be a mid-range GPU), the die size would be too big and we also know nVidia worked on a GK110 too.

or it means this rumor is suggesting the GK114 GPU is adding transistors to the GK104 design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

That's all good and everything, but the GTX 780 is going to be a refresh of Kepler much like how the GTX 580 was a refresh of Fermi, it'll be similar transistor count to GTX 680, or the GK110 transistor count of 7.1 billion at best.

The Fermi "refresh" wasn't a refresh as much as it was actually fixing the architecture to what it should have been to begin with - Fermi's original launch was actually something of a failure as it was late and yields were bad enough to require crippled GPUs, not just on the large and more complex GF100 but on GF104 as well. It wasn't until GF114 and 110 that we saw "whole" Fermi GPUs. And while GF110 and 114 were better than what a "whole" GF100 and 104 would have been, most of their performance advantage came from having that much more raw horse power from being whole rather than optimizations to the architecture.

on the flip side, nVidia didn't eactly screw up with GK104, and that means they really don't have an unwieldy architecture to fix. A simple "refresh" wouldn't net any major improvements. And since GK104 is such a small design, it actually gives nVidia the freedom to scale it up to a larger chip, not necessarily GK110 in size, but something in between is perfectly believable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

These specs are likely fake unless nVidia is using GK110 with three SMX's disabled, which I doubt. (They have two Tesla's, one with 15 SMX's and one with 14, the numbers in this article are equavalent to 13 SMX's being enabled)
Hitting 1.1Ghz on GK110 is likely impossible on air, too. I could have worded that better.

The numbers here actually suggest 12 SMXs, and since it talks about GK114 as the code name (not GK110) it doesn't imply anything is disabled.

And to keep things in perspective, if we look at the 3.5B transistor GK104 as the evolutionary successor to the 1.95B transistor GF104/114 (article) and then look at GK110 and its 7.1B transistors, GK110 really a whole new animal when we compare it to the 3B transistor GF100/110, as its a good ~1.8B transistors above where we might have predicted it to be based on GF114 -> GK104 and then GF110 -> GK110.

Now while GK110 with its 7.1B transistors would be quite the feat to clock @ 1.1GHz, a GK114 with ~5.3B transistors (estimated) and die size smaller than GF100/110 (again, inferred from GK104 being smaller than GF104/114), well then it likely wouldn't be impossible as we already see how well 7970s can blow past 1.1GHz with their 4.3B transistors. Although 1.1GHz stock clocks certainly wouldn't be necessary as the chip is more than beastly enough it could get away with much lower clockrates and still likely come out on top.
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post #93 of 132
Whats with the talk about power consumption, wouldn't most people who buy this high end of a product already have a high end psu?
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post #94 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

This rumour would mean that it's using GK110, not GK114 (What is meant to be a mid-range GPU), the die size would be too big and we also know nVidia worked on a GK110 too.

or it means this rumor is suggesting the GK114 GPU is adding transistors to the GK104 design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

That's all good and everything, but the GTX 780 is going to be a refresh of Kepler much like how the GTX 580 was a refresh of Fermi, it'll be similar transistor count to GTX 680, or the GK110 transistor count of 7.1 billion at best.

The Fermi "refresh" wasn't a refresh as much as it was actually fixing the architecture to what it should have been to begin with - Fermi's original launch was actually something of a failure as it was late and yields were bad enough to require crippled GPUs, not just on the large and more complex GF100 but on GF104 as well. It wasn't until GF114 and 110 that we saw "whole" Fermi GPUs. And while GF110 and 114 were better than what a "whole" GF100 and 104 would have been, most of their performance advantage came from having that much more raw horse power from being whole rather than optimizations to the architecture.

on the flip side, nVidia didn't eactly screw up with GK104, and that means they really don't have an unwieldy architecture to fix. A simple "refresh" wouldn't net any major improvements. And since GK104 is such a small design, it actually gives nVidia the freedom to scale it up to a larger chip, not necessarily GK110 in size, but something in between is perfectly believable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

These specs are likely fake unless nVidia is using GK110 with three SMX's disabled, which I doubt. (They have two Tesla's, one with 15 SMX's and one with 14, the numbers in this article are equavalent to 13 SMX's being enabled)
Hitting 1.1Ghz on GK110 is likely impossible on air, too. I could have worded that better.

The numbers here actually suggest 12 SMXs, and since it talks about GK114 as the code name (not GK110) it doesn't imply anything is disabled.

And to keep things in perspective, if we look at the 3.5B transistor GK104 as the evolutionary successor to the 1.95B transistor GF104/114 (article) and then look at GK110 and its 7.1B transistors, GK110 really a whole new animal when we compare it to the 3B transistor GF100/110, as its a good ~1.8B transistors above where we might have predicted it to be based on GF114 -> GK104 and then GF110 -> GK110.

Now while GK110 with its 7.1B transistors would be quite the feat to clock @ 1.1GHz, a GK114 with ~5.3B transistors (estimated) and die size smaller than GF100/110 (again, inferred from GK104 being smaller than GF104/114), well then it likely wouldn't be impossible as we already see how well 7970s can blow past 1.1GHz with their 4.3B transistors. Although 1.1GHz stock clocks certainly wouldn't be necessary as the chip is more than beastly enough it could get away with much lower clockrates and still likely come out on top.

That's the thing though, if nVidia does GK114 it won't be much different from GK104, just refined and more efficient much like every other refresh, it might have an extra SMX thrown in but nothing more than that at most, G*1*4 is meant to be the mid-range chip remember, GK114 will be a GTX 760 at least.
Fermi's architecture wasn't that bad, it was the leakage in the 40nm design and the actual chip itself not translating well to 40nm, and nVidia has always tried to push GPU size limits since G80, GT200 was the biggest GPU. Ever. If we see a GTX 780 with over 2k shaders, it will be GK110.
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post #95 of 132

If the new consoles are based off Dx 11-11.1 I think video cards for computers are going to get a serious boost. What is holding back games from having amazing graphics is the consoles which 90% of games are made to run on.  Maxwell will be like 2 times faster then this "supposed" GTX 780 imo. This is my personal opinion using what I have seen over the years as my base. 

post #96 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by dph314 View Post

120hz monitor + SGSSAA = almost any recent game is demanding
What are gray to gray, and black to black numbers of your monitor? (I assume it's either PVA, or IPS.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight View Post

^^ This. Not to mention for users who say single GTX 670s/ 680s or 7950s/7970s are overkill. Let them play Metro 2033 with everything maxed out at 1080p.
This reminds me my approach. All my games are using CPU to the max (and are actually using efficient algorithms), and my 3D GFX approach is: throw triangles at GFX card, GFX card would sort it somehow. Metro 2033 used slightly more efficient approach, but its programmers suck and they didn't bother with speed optimization too much.
Quote:
Dark Souls is a very weak measure of the capability of cards since this game is very undemanding, even my spare GTX 470 can get 60 fps almost all the time in it.
Almost? What are your speeds on P8 and P5 modes? You can look them in the NVidia inspector.
Quote:
My GTX 670 wasn't able to max out Metro 2033 at playable fps, nor Crysis 1 (have to play without mods to make it playable at Very High 4x AA) otherwise the mods would kill it.
Obviously. Modders either don't have brainpower to properly test stuff and speed optimize stuff, or in the better case, they would rise numbers and add EXTRA large textures just because they can.
Quote:
And Skyrim with ENBseries mods feel too choppy sometimes dropping to low 30s or 40s in places with so many trees/plants.
Skyrim is CPU dependent. I played it in reasonable resolution on 8600 GT, passively cooled. The main problem with Skyrim were these ini files. Bethesda was incredibly inept to create proper combinations, and simply copied console like details. Because PC works differently, the default ini files hurt Skyrim badly.
post #97 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post


Almost? What are your speeds on P8 and P5 modes? You can look them in the NVidia inspector.

I don't care about the P mode the card uses during the gameplay, I was pointing out this game doesn't even require the power of current generation cards. even a GTX 460 will do fine in this game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

Skyrim is CPU dependent. I played it in reasonable resolution on 8600 GT, passively cooled. The main problem with Skyrim were these ini files. Bethesda was incredibly inept to create proper combinations, and simply copied console like details. Because PC works differently, the default ini files hurt Skyrim badly.

Nope. My GPU usage was 100% all the time when I get the drops to 30s or 40s with Enbseries, so it is not the CPU.
I know how badly it was unoptimized before the the patches, but now Skyrim is optimized much better than launch.
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post #98 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post

We can all praise AMD with their recent work regarding driver optimisations, but lets be realistic for a moment GK104 was no slouch by any means even with it's castrated features. By opening up the memory bus to 384bit alone will give reasonable gains, a serious boost in cores and clock speeds could spell a dramatic difference indeed.
Also we must keep in mind that Nvidia does has TDP in it's favour, AMD are already pulling crazy power figures with their 7970's. Does AMD's 8xxx series have much room for improvement? Unlikely.....because power draw is against them. This is the reason why the 7990 never happened.





Performance/watt is very close. And since they're performance is always close, so are the power figures.
 
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post #99 of 132
Thread Starter 
Toms Hardware charts are rubbish.

Ask anyone that uses multiple 7970's, they pull far more power than GTX680's. It's common knowledge...
 
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post #100 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post

Toms Hardware charts are rubbish.
Ask anyone that uses multiple 7970's, they pull far more power than GTX680's. It's common knowledge...

That chart from Tom's above are on 7870, 7950,660Ti and 670, had nothing to do with 7970 or 680. The first three charts are clearly from Anandtech.





And Tom's hardware charts on 7970s and 680s contradicts your claim how???
Edited by sherlock - 11/20/12 at 9:27am
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