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Dont ever try to dispute a transaction with Valve/Steam through PayPal. Your account will be banned. - Page 12

post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

To be fair DRM does play a part in this though since Valve uses that as leverage against you so you play by their rules or lose everything you have. The fact they use account bans against legitimate transaction disputes is a big problem. They reserve the right to close your account for any reason according to their TOS. If they want to ban or suspended you, theres not a whole lot you can do...
If Valve were a mail order company that sold DRM free games, this wouldnt have been the issue it is right now.

Disagree.
Since the OP stopped payment through Paypal the purchase he made is then canceled. Steam has the right to deny product/service which is the only way they can do it since the OP went around standard cancellation process. The Ban cancellation clause is to protect from legitimate fraud. While Banning the whole account is extreme in this case, and probably will not happen (I did not read if it did) businesses do have the right to protect themselves.

Further forcing a stop payment on a product, even digital, forces Steam to talk to Paypal, or other financial institution, which costs money and time to resolve, to determine if the dispute is legitimate.

While the processes used by Steam can be irritating in resolving issues they do work.
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post #112 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

I don't know about that. Looking at how Valve runs the rest of their business, I don't quite get that feel from them. You know they just let their employees work on whatever project they want to. That's why their games are so good, and why HL3 is taking so long tongue.gif.
I get the feeling that they just don't want to handle the day to day steam support, so have set it up in a way that it can run by itself essentially- which means being pretty inflexible.

Im not knocking their game development. Valve definitely makes some great games and continues to do so. Its just the Steam platform and the customer service I cant wrap my head around. They have the money to provide real customer support so thats not the issue, for whatever reason theyre just refusing to do so.
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post #113 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post


Further forcing a stop payment on a product, even digital, forces Steam to talk to Paypal, or other financial institution, which costs money and time to resolve, to determine if the dispute is legitimate.
While the processes used by Steam can be irritating in resolving issues they do work.

Really, youre going to use that reasoning? It costs Valve money and time to talk to PayPal to resolve a dispute through them? Thats the whole problem. Valve runs a business, part of the cost of business is providing support for the products you sell. In this case, they took money from me that didnt belong to them. So Im supposed to feel bad it costs Valve time and money to fix the problem they caused in the first place? The whole thing started because Valve doesnt want to provide adequate support for the services they provide.
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post #114 of 131
I've only ever bought one thing off Steam using a split transaction, and the one thing I clearly remember is that after choosing the second form of payment, I had to re-select that I wanted to use the funds in my Steam wallet for the majority of the payment...
 
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post #115 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

Really, youre going to use that reasoning? It costs Valve money and time to talk to PayPal to resolve a dispute through them? Thats the whole problem. Valve runs a business, part of the cost of business is providing support for the products you sell. In this case, they took money from me that didnt belong to them. So Im supposed to feel bad it costs Valve time and money to fix the problem they caused in the first place? The whole thing started because Valve doesnt want to provide adequate support for the services they provide.

It isn't reasoning.
Valve/Steam uses an electronic billing system. These systems are usually very inflexible and are designed to do explicit instructions. It isn't like talking to a salesman behind a counter. The point is that you have to use the Tools that go with that billing system to get a good experience.

Bypassing Steam forces a different set of tools and processes.
Forcing a Stop payment caused the Steam billing system to do x processes. There isn't some guy with a jelley donut pushing buttons to spite customers.

Valve does provide customer service, but it is through a combination of Online Ticket AND Forum Support Tickets.
Use the forums to push the service ticket, this is where you talk to real people.
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post #116 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

It isn't reasoning.
Valve/Steam uses an electronic billing system. These systems are usually very inflexible and are designed to do explicit instructions. It isn't like talking to a salesman behind a counter. The point is that you have to use the Tools that go with that billing system to get a good experience.
Bypassing Steam forces a different set of tools and processes.
Forcing a Stop payment caused the Steam billing system to do x processes. There isn't some guy with a jelley donut pushing buttons to spite customers.
Valve does provide customer service, but it is through a combination of Online Ticket AND Forum Support Tickets.
Use the forums to push the service ticket, this is where you talk to real people.

According to Valve though, anyone who disputes a transaction is automatically a criminal and will have their account flagged, purchases locked and threaten with a ban unless they submit to Valves jurisdiction on the matter, which is not right at all. They had a chance to view my ticket, and if they had done so would have immediately seen they screwed up and overbilled me.

What they could have done is email me to say they were aware of the problem and were working on fixing it, and to close the paypal dispute as a courtesy while they worked on getting my money back.
No instead they threaten a ban, lock my purchases and flag my steam account and refuse to work further with me until I give up the dispute.

This is not how you run a business or treat customers.
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post #117 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

According to Valve though, anyone who disputes a transaction is automatically a criminal and will have their account flagged, purchases locked and threaten with a ban unless they submit to Valves jurisdiction on the matter, which is not right at all. They had a chance to view my ticket, and if they had done so would have immediately seen they screwed up and overbilled me.
What they could have done is email me to say they were aware of the problem and were working on fixing it, and to close the paypal dispute as a courtesy while they worked on getting my money back.
No instead they threaten a ban, lock my purchases and flag my steam account and refuse to work further with me until I give up the dispute.
This is not how you run a business or treat customers.

To be fair, on Valve's end, how do they know you will close the ticket with paypal? How do they know you will raise a ticket with them, i feel like they have to threaten you with a BAN to prevent you from just continuing with the paypal ticket and getting your money back. It's like them keeping something personal from you if you forget to pay for items; they have to have a reassurance that you will do as you say.
post #118 of 131
You sound like you're purposely saying it's just Valve. Go do the same thing with ANY online retailer that accepts Paypal, buy something, then dispute the charge and see how fast the retailer flags your account, prevents purchases, and may lock the account until a resolution is met. Hell, EA has openly banned people's Origin accounts JUST for talking negatively about them or certain EA games on their forums. But that's a different point. As I said in my last post, when I've made a split transaction purchase via Steam, after I selected my secondary method of payment, I had to re-select that I also wanted to use my Steam wallet. It was probably a simple oversight on your part (I almost missed it myself) and an knee-jerk reaction to file a dispute with PayPal. Even PayPal hates dealing with disputes, it's not just Valve. Disputes cost time, money, and manpower that most companies would rather not involve, PayPal included, which is why they say only to do it as a last resort, not the first thing to attempt because it took a bit of time to get a response.

Companies these days have to take drastic measures to protect themselves from us. (Please don't think I'm calling you stupid when I use the following example, this is just an example) Remember a few years back, lady spilled hot coffee on herself at McDonald's, sued them because the coffee was hot and there was no warning on the cup, and she won? I swear, the lack of common sense in our society today, and how easy it is to sue someone and win is stunning, so companies have to take steps to protect themselves. (Again, not saying you're stupid or lack common sense, that was just an example provided for the reasoning behind extreme measures for corporate protection.) When a transaction is made, Valve doesn't know it's 100% you on the other end of it. you could have been signed in to your account and a friend/family member could have walked up while you were AFK and bought something without your knowledge. Filing a dispute almost immediately was a bad move imo.
Edited by Marafice Eye - 11/16/12 at 1:17pm
 
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post #119 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davayy View Post

To be fair, on Valve's end, how do they know you will close the ticket with paypal? How do they know you will raise a ticket with them, i feel like they have to threaten you with a BAN to prevent you from just continuing with the paypal ticket and getting your money back. It's like them keeping something personal from you if you forget to pay for items; they have to have a reassurance that you will do as you say.

I dont see how thats relevant. Even if I won the dispute with paypal and got my money back which they took, Valve still has full control over my steam account. They can remove any game they wish or block me from accessing my content or account at any time. Its not like were talking about fancy electronics or jewelry or anything they mailed out to me which is going to be difficult to reclaim, its a digital game that cost Steam a penny or two in bandwidth to send to me...

As I mentioned earlier, If I disputed a transaction with Amazon, they cant exactly go in and reclaim all the stuff they shipped to me previously in retaliation. Its the fact that Valve uses this as leverage against you which is worrying.
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post #120 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

Without getting sidetracked too much from the original issue... I did take it up with ID and Bethesda. They told me to talk to Steam for the refund, so I did.
I dont think its unreasonable to ask for a refund on a PC game. Had I bought a board game at a store that was advertised as something different, I could have totally taken it back to the store to get a refund no questions asked. But with a digital PC game, I cant return it to the retailer and I cant trade it to someone else either. Im stuck with it for good...

You can't return a video game even if its not digital even at B&M stores...
Edited by dmasteR - 11/16/12 at 1:59pm
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