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Dont ever try to dispute a transaction with Valve/Steam through PayPal. Your account will be banned. - Page 4

post #31 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

The TOS was always available, but you and I both know theyre constantly updated and changing with or without notice. Do you read the long TOS searching for new changes every time they decide to update it? I think the last time I read the full TOS was back in 2004. PayPal as an option didnt exist back then. And we both know that nobody goes over each and every TOS agreement they come across with a magnifying glass.
And its also not reasonable to expect a clause to be in there like PayPal transaction disputes resulting in a ban of your account.

Any changes made have to be agreed upon by the user after said changes have been made. The most recent change was the Binding Arbitration Clause because of the PSN backlash. And generally any changes they make are noted at the beginning of the new ToS agreement.

Paypal was added in late 2006 for Steam. How have you not noticed or read anything that changed in the ToS since then?

Section 3 has always been in the agreement, it just had to add paypal as one of the accepted forms of payment.
Quote:
3. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

ALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.

So not expecting online access suspension by disagreeing to the terms is a poor move.
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post #32 of 131
The demand for instant gratification and sense of entitlement of this generation astounds me. One has to provide a company with appropriate time to address an issue before it can be assumed they won't do anything to solve the problem in question. This is not specifically directed at the OP, it's more of a general observation.
post #33 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootsfox View Post

, but YOU messed up the checkout process. Give them a chance to fix it before crying fowl.

Huh? How can I possibly have messed up the checkout process? Its controlled by Valve. The Steam Wallet funds are supposed to be taken first no matter what. The checkout screen even confirmed this was the case when it asked me to provided a second payment method to cover the remaining balance due. I did give them a chance, like my previous experiences with email support, they take their time replying to issues and dont treat matters with any urgency. Its been said earlier, but you have a certain amount of time to dispute incorrect transactions made through paypal.

Now Im left with no game, and am $60 poorer with what Valve wrongfully took from me, my account is flagged with a big red warning box when I log into steam, and am in jeopardy of being banned, all because of Valves mistake, and their choice not to provide proper customer service.
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post #34 of 131
Valve/steam has usually been pretty good about working with me and my impulsive game buying behavior.
post #35 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

Huh? How can I possibly have messed up the checkout process? Its controlled by Valve. The Steam Wallet funds are supposed to be taken first no matter what. The checkout screen even confirmed this was the case when it asked me to provided a second payment method to cover the remaining balance due. I did give them a chance, like my previous experiences with email support, they take their time replying to issues and dont treat matters with any urgency. Its been said earlier, but you have a certain amount of time to dispute incorrect transactions made through paypal.
Now Im left with no game, and am $60 poorer with what Valve wrongfully took from me, my account is flagged with a big red warning box when I log into steam, and am in jeopardy of being banned, all because of Valves mistake, and their choice not to provide proper customer service.

Sorry, I may have confused what you said. When checking out I believe it is possible to select a different payment method while in the process of doing a split one. You may have selected Paypal for the payment in full. There should be at least one review screen before you click buy as well.

Either way, disputing a transaction is rarely the method to use before giving the seller a chance to respond.

As an example, as a seller, I find it insulting when an eBay customer files a Paypal dispute before even trying to contact me first. You didn't give Valve a chance to solve your billing issue, which I'm sure is automatically a higher priority in the ticket system anyways. If you didn't file the dispute, you'd only be $60 poorer and hopefully Valve would adjust the transaction for you.
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post #36 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post

Any changes made have to be agreed upon by the user after said changes have been made. The most recent change was the Binding Arbitration Clause because of the PSN backlash. And generally any changes they make are noted at the beginning of the new ToS agreement.
Paypal was added in late 2006 for Steam. How have you not noticed or read anything that changed in the ToS since then?
Section 3 has always been in the agreement, it just had to add paypal as one of the accepted forms of payment.
So not expecting online access suspension by disagreeing to the terms is a poor move.

Right or wrong, I like many others do not read every TOS agreement they come across and then study each one every time theyre updated and changed. Ive installed several hundred games and applications and signed up for countless programs and accounts to various websites and services. The amount of TOS agreements Ive entered into are in the hundreds easily. Its simply not reasonable for a person to spend the huge amount of time and resources reading through each and every one of the agreements to stay current and updated on each one. Its just not feasible. I know you dont either. People skip through TOS agreement and click ok. Its a fact that TOS creators relish.

The TOS agreements are not made in a way to easily convey to the end consumer what their rights are and exactly what kind of agreement theyre entering into. Theyre long, drawn out and filled often times with confusing terms. Theyre made simply to protect and benefit the company who made it and strip away as many rights as possible from the consumer.

So after the fact, when I finally do find the PayPal clause in the TOS agreement with Steam, you can certainly see my frustration and disbelief at something like this. By accepting paypal as a payment method, Steam needs to abide by PayPals rules too. In my view, a court of law would find the TOS of Steam unconscionable in that it prevents you from billing disputes through the payment method used by threatening an account ban in retaliation.
Edited by channelx99 - 11/13/12 at 9:02pm
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post #37 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootsfox View Post

As an example, as a seller, I find it insulting when an eBay customer files a Paypal dispute before even trying to contact me first. You didn't give Valve a chance to solve your billing issue, which I'm sure is automatically a higher priority in the ticket system anyways. If you didn't file the dispute, you'd only be $60 poorer and hopefully Valve would adjust the transaction for you.

This, seriously.

I thought it was common knowledge by now that Valve locks/bans accounts that file PayPal disputes. It's a well-known tactic that scammers use to try and get free games. It's better to just wait for them to sort it out instead of giving them a reason to think you're a liability to them.
post #38 of 131
Glad I read this for future purchases !!!
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post #39 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

This, seriously.
I thought it was common knowledge by now that Valve locks/bans accounts that file PayPal disputes. It's a well-known tactic that scammers use to try and get free games. It's better to just wait for them to sort it out instead of giving them a reason to think you're a liability to them.

It wasnt common knowledge to me at least that they ban accounts for reasons like this.

Valve never even looked at my account to see the 8 years Ive been with them or the large amount of money I spent on games before flagging my account and threatening to ban me. They never read my support ticket either. Had they taken just a brief moment to do so, they could have clearly seen I had a legitimate issue and was in no way trying to scam a free game. All they cared about was getting the paypal dispute removed and their $59.99, money which was wrongfully taken from me, back to their account. So now I lost any right to dispute the $59.99 charge with paypal again since I closed my dispute against Valves threats.


Lets say this issue were somewhat different in that instead of the amount being $59.99, they took out 20x that amount, causing my bank account to overdraft and leaving me with no money to pay rent or buy food. Would it still have been reasonable to wait a week or more for Valve to hopefully do the right thing and sort it out on their own time when they dont have a proper customer service department?
Valve took money that did not belong to them. I have every right to be upset and want to get it back asap.
Edited by channelx99 - 11/13/12 at 9:15pm
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post #40 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

you're right about one thing, ORIGIN, hate em or love em, has the best customer service I've ever encountered.
yes / no. its like a scratch card with a 1 in 3 chance to win. my best one was with crysis 2. tried 3 times to get an activation reset. first 2 was a bunch of robotic morons that must of turtled themselves on the job. the 3rd? was kinda freeky. I ended up getting 10 activations, discounts for the inconvenience and a follow up call the following monday having a random chat with customer support. didnt feel like ea at all.

hopefully this steam issue can be resolved, I suggest taking it to the steam forums if you want there attention.
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