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Dont ever try to dispute a transaction with Valve/Steam through PayPal. Your account will be banned. - Page 5

post #41 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

Right or wrong, I like many others do not read every TOS agreement they come across and then study each one every time theyre updated and changed. Ive installed several hundred games and applications and signed up for countless programs and accounts to various websites and services. The amount of TOS agreements Ive entered into are in the hundreds easily. Its simply not reasonable for a person to spend the huge amount of time and resources reading through each and every one of the agreements to stay current and updated on each one. Its just not feasible. I know you dont either. People skip through TOS agreement and click ok. Its a fact that TOS creators relish.
The TOS agreements are not made in a way to easily convey to the end consumer what their rights are and exactly what kind of agreement theyre entering into. Theyre long, drawn out and filled often times with confusing terms. Theyre made simply to protect and benefit the company who made it and strip away as many rights as possible from the consumer.
So after the fact, when I finally do find the PayPal clause in the TOS agreement with Steam, you can certainly see my frustration and disbelief at something like this. By accepting paypal as a payment method, Steam needs to abide by PayPals rules too. In my view, a court of law would find the TOS of Steam unconscionable in that it prevents you from billing disputes through the payment method used by threatening an account ban in retaliation.

I'm not disputing whether the ToS would hold up in a court of law. By agreeing to a EULA, you don't forfeit rights granted by law.

This situation, however, doesn't involve a court. It's Paypal, Steam, and yourself. You play by their rules collectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by channelx99 View Post

It wasnt common knowledge to me at least that they ban accounts for reasons like this.
Valve never even looked at my account to see the 8 years Ive been with them or the large amount of money I spent on games before flagging my account and threatening to ban me. They never read my support ticket either. Had they taken just a brief moment to do so, they could have clearly seen I had a legitimate issue and was in no way trying to scam a free game. All they cared about was getting the paypal dispute removed and their $59.99, money which was wrongfully taken from me, back to their account. So now I lost any right to dispute the $59.99 charge with paypal again since I closed my dispute against Valves threats.
Lets say this issue were somewhat different in that instead of the amount being $59.99, they took out 20x that amount, causing my bank account to overdraft and leaving me with no money to pay rent or buy food. Would it still have been reasonable to wait a week or more for Valve to hopefully do the right thing and sort it out on their own time when they dont have a proper customer service department?
Valve took money that did not belong to them. I have every right to be upset and want to get it back asap.

But that wasn't the case. This isn't a "what if...?" scenario. You were charged an exact amount for a product, no more or less. Had that been the case, though, it likely would have been dealt with swiftly.

As for being with steam for 8 years, that makes no difference. Seniority in the digital marketplace doesn't exist. You don't sit above another person that has been there for 1 day.
Edited by That Guy - 11/13/12 at 9:21pm
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post #42 of 131
Meh. Steam has little choice but to hold the banhammer over people who dispute purchases, because there are so many scammers out there who will manipulate the fact that paypal doesn't do much investigation for customers outside the U.S.. Most of the time they just assume that the claim is legitimate and push it through with full force to avoid any problems with miscommunication or dispute over what is and isn't legal in a certain country. In order to avoid discriminating against international customers, Steam puts us under the same blanket policy they need to avoid people from "buying" the games and then wrangling the system for a couple months while they play the game to completion, then getting their money back so they can purchase another game and do the same thing.

Just because this is their knee-jerk reaction doesn't mean this is going to be the final decision on your case. If you scream like hell they'll notice and act accordingly. If you don't, you'll get buried in the shlock and they'll just let their standard practice as deemed by the TOS take effect because you just flat out don't stand out above the background noise of people pushing the limit and seeing where they can get away with crap. Steam makes 100's of thousands of sales every day, so just imagine how many support tickets they get not because of system error, which there will be plenty, but also user error, and then scammers. Gotta make sure that you are firmly categorized in the user error section, and you should be taken care of.

Just drop the paypal dispute but keep talking with customer support. Explain what you had intended, and ask if they could take the remainder of what's in your steam wallet and send a payment to your paypal. I'm sure they'll be fine with it. I've only had one problem with steam with a double purchase during a sale due to lag. It happened on a Saturday and by Tuesday morning it was fixed without me saying a thing. They're not unreasonable and have plenty of information about your account available to make a rational decision.

Patience. Hard to be patient with $60 caught in limbo I know, but patience will see it resolved I assure you.
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post #43 of 131
Personally - get over it. Lol.
So they scabbed $60 from your PayPal account.... you still have the same amount of money (Steam Wallet + PayPal).

I'd bet my house the next thing you buy will be a game anyway! tongue.gif


---

OK so a little more seriously - its a shame the checkout processed bugged out. But just be patient, I'm sure the issue can get resolved via better means. There's nothing in the TOS that says you can't keep pestering them via e-mail, right?
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post #44 of 131
the OP gave steam a week to do something about it, the week has passed without a single response/confirmation, then he filed a dispute to paypal, i don't see what's wrong with what he did.

if steam needs more than a week to respond, imagine how long will it take before they will actually refund your money, how long should the op wait? a month?
post #45 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

the OP gave steam a week to do something about it, the week has passed without a single response/confirmation, then he filed a dispute to paypal, i don't see what's wrong with what he did.
if steam needs more than a week to respond, imagine how long will it take before they will actually refund your money, how long should the op wait? a month?
Re-read. He had a different ticket open for a week previous to this issue.
post #46 of 131
Holy smokes this gives me an idea on how to get hackers banned. Create new Steam account, gift said hacker the cheapest game on Steam, dispute payment, HACKER GONE!
And yes, I have read instances of people getting their accounts locked when gift purchases (they received) were disputed.
Edited by BulletSponge - 11/13/12 at 11:13pm
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post #47 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletSponge View Post

Holy smokes this gives me an idea on how to get hackers banned. Create new Steam account, gift said hacker the cheapest game on Steam, dispute payment, HACKER GONE!
And yes, I have read instances of people getting their accounts locked when gift purchases (they received) were disputed.

Can't hackers get banned anyway for hacking?
post #48 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

Can't hackers get banned anyway for hacking?

In time yes. Shortly after posting last night I realized that unless someone is on your friends list you cannot gift them a game so my idea would not work anyway.
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post #49 of 131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Meh. Steam has little choice but to hold the banhammer over people who dispute purchases, because there are so many scammers out there who will manipulate the fact that paypal doesn't do much investigation for customers outside the U.S.. Most of the time they just assume that the claim is legitimate and push it through with full force to avoid any problems with miscommunication or dispute over what is and isn't legal in a certain country. In order to avoid discriminating against international customers, Steam puts us under the same blanket policy they need to avoid people from "buying" the games and then wrangling the system for a couple months while they play the game to completion, then getting their money back so they can purchase another game and do the same thing.
Just because this is their knee-jerk reaction doesn't mean this is going to be the final decision on your case. If you scream like hell they'll notice and act accordingly. If you don't, you'll get buried in the shlock and they'll just let their standard practice as deemed by the TOS take effect because you just flat out don't stand out above the background noise of people pushing the limit and seeing where they can get away with crap. Steam makes 100's of thousands of sales every day, so just imagine how many support tickets they get not because of system error, which there will be plenty, but also user error, and then scammers. Gotta make sure that you are firmly categorized in the user error section, and you should be taken care of.
Just drop the paypal dispute but keep talking with customer support. Explain what you had intended, and ask if they could take the remainder of what's in your steam wallet and send a payment to your paypal. I'm sure they'll be fine with it. I've only had one problem with steam with a double purchase during a sale due to lag. It happened on a Saturday and by Tuesday morning it was fixed without me saying a thing. They're not unreasonable and have plenty of information about your account available to make a rational decision.
Patience. Hard to be patient with $60 caught in limbo I know, but patience will see it resolved I assure you.

I had figured I might get the money back sooner or later that part I wasnt too concerned about. Its just the whole thing is on Valves terms and time. Its now going on 10 days since I reported another billing issue to them and still no reply whatsoever on that issue. How long is reasonable for me to wait when they are in the wrong here? Going back to my other hypothetical situation, how long would have been reasonable to wait had Valve actually taken a lot more than just $60 from me to the point where it over drafted my bank account. Should I still have been patient for a week, two weeks, or however long it took them to finally acknowledge my issue while I have no money from their major mistake? Whether its $60, $600 or any other amount, Valve wrongfully took money from me and I shouldnt have to wait weeks to get it back.

The main problem I have with this whole situation is the lack of customer service for a company their size, then bullying and threatening people to close legitimate transaction disputes through paypal. When I closed the dispute with paypal they even mentioned Valve was not supposed to be doing this and its more than likely a violation of paypals terms which will be investigated. Steam is championed as DRM done right and a great service... yet if you run into any sort of problem, then you see the dark side of Valve. Things need to be changed.
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post #50 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletSponge View Post

In time yes. Shortly after posting last night I realized that unless someone is on your friends list you cannot gift them a game so my idea would not work anyway.

Good idea in theory at least. tongue.gif
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