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How to run a proper FAN comparison? - Page 2

post #11 of 97
If you don't care about the performance, I would recommend the 212 or another good air cooler.

An air cooler would work the same way over years without issues.

But we can't say the same about the water cooler.
There's a risk that one day the electric motor could fail.
There's also a risk about leaking.
Edited by edsai - 11/15/12 at 5:05pm
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post #12 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsai View Post

If you don't care about the performance, I would recommend the 212 or another good air cooler.
An air cooler would work the same way over years without issues.
But we can't say the same about the water cooler.
There's a risk that one day the electric motor could fail.
There's also a risk about leaking.

This isn't something that should deter possible buyers. Failure of a clc has been pretty low, more complain about a noisy grinding or something of the like. By the time your unit starts showing age, there will be better units you can buy for around the original price you paid. In the computer business, you shouldn't be looking farther than 3-4 years when buying a part.
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post #13 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I'm not a silence freak at all.

What would be a better cooler? Even something like a noctua d-n14 or megas aren't dramatically better than the 212+ and twice the cost. It looks like the h50 with push/pull vs hyper 212+ push/pull is like 10*C difference? For $40 that seems like quite a big upgrade.

I mean I dont really see anything else that would be a dramatic upgrade for under $60.

And the noctua isnt quieter than the hyper 212+, the fans are. It's aggravating when cooling systems are rated on the piece of **** or overrated fans they are bundled with. They just put high quality fans with a ****ty heatsink and its touted as a great heatsink (the H70, for example), or it's a great system with **** fans to reduce the price. The noctua isnt going to be quieter than my hyper 212 if I put **** fans on it, and it isnt going to be better if I put high quality fans on my hyper 212. What would be more appropriate, is comparing the two with the same push/pull fans on them.

Well glad to know I wasted my money.

I think you're sorely mistaken. Yea sure fans are quieter, sticking blade masters on anything will make anyone's ears sad.

Please look up benchmarks for temp differences between the D14 and the 212.
I personally had a 212+ and upgraded to a D14. Don't make statements that you can't backup. Holding the two side by side, the sheer VOLUME and build quality of the two are entirely different. Unfortunately I can't compare too much with my temps since I switched processors as well but that's what google is for.
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post #14 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
If you don't care about the performance, I would recommend the 212 or another good air cooler.

An air cooler would work the same way over years without issues.

But we can't say the same about the water cooler.
There's a risk that one day the electric motor could fail.
There's also a risk about leaking.

Is this really true? Have you experienced leaking?

I'm sorry, but whenever I hear someone say "but water leaks!" I have a hard time taking them seriously. I mean, you know, overclocking results in friend out chips!

There's a risk a bus might run into me. I don't think it's very likely, and there are simple precautions I can take to make sure leaks don't occur or motor failure damage (temperature shutdown, motor sensor shutdown, extra clamps onto hose niplets).

The hyper 212+ is definitely the best budget buy, and is definitely a great cooler, but that's not the question being asked here. I suppose you can think of it like this: is the h50 at $35 or less as good a deal as the hyper 212+ is at it's price point? If not, what price would make it so? What is the 'next' best budget cooler above the hyper 212+ in performance?
Quote:
Well glad to know I wasted my money.

I think you're sorely mistaken. Yea sure fans are quieter, sticking blade masters on anything will make anyone's ears sad.

Please look up benchmarks for temp differences between the D14 and the 212.
I personally had a 212+ and upgraded to a D14. Don't make statements that you can't backup. Holding the two side by side, the sheer VOLUME and build quality of the two are entirely different. Unfortunately I can't compare too much with my temps since I switched processors as well but that's what google is for.

I appreciate your input so far, but I made clear that I don't care about volume. Furthermore, volume on air and closed loop liquid is based 100% on the fans being used. A hyper 212+ makes ZERO decibels, it's the fans that make the sound.

Now the noctua d14 might be a great hsf, I'm not saying it isn't. But the fans it comes with are high quality, and if I want high quality fans, I can just buy some high quality fans. Yate loons for $5! although maybe the d14 fans are better than yate loon, whatever, my point is, is that saying how quiet a system is really is meaningless because it's about the fans, which can be replaced, and are GOING to be replaced by anyone unless the system already comes with high end fans... which is cool but it's not like if you buy a h50 or hyper 212+ you are screwed because you cant get good fans either.

And I dont think they are a significant cost either. Everyone should buy a couple high quality 120 mm fans for their set up. If you buy something like a d14 which may come with high quality fans, great, swap out 2 of your system 120mm fans, or whatever. I mean I have a couple stock fans in my computer, and none of them are in their stock positions (cm blademasters, nzxt gamma case fan, 80mm cpu fan, 40mm chipset fan).

Also, the DH14 isn't on sale for $35, while the H50 is. It seems the DH14 can be had for, at cheapest, used, is $55, but more than likely you have to pay $70+ for it. That sucks.

I mean, for performance, it's great. I'm basically interested in a great budget value cooler, that's a step up from the hyper 212+, and a h50 at $40 sounds like it's a great budget value cooler... although im not sure... so my questions were in regards to straight up performance first.
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post #15 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jprovido View Post

H50 is undoubtedly better. if you see benchmarks youd see it would not do so well because of the stock fans. when you throw in another fan in there for push/pull the performance will improve dramatically. I remember overclocking my Phenom II x6 1090T @ 4.1ghz 3GHZ NB ont hat cooler. it still ran really nice and cool

You know, generally what I see, is that a 2nd fan or pull on a heatsink only reduces degrees by .5, 1 at most.

Its really more about the quality of the fan used, or rather, the cfm, as you could just use like an actual fan.

Anyways, is $36 for an h50 a good deal? Should I buy it at that price or not?
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post #16 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

The hyper 212+ is definitely the best budget buy, and is definitely a great cooler, but that's not the question being asked here. I suppose you can think of it like this: is the h50 at $35 or less as good a deal as the hyper 212+ is at

it's price point? If not, what price would make it so? What is the 'next' best budget cooler above the hyper 212+ in performance?

I'm using the 212+ and I don't know how good is the H50 or who is the best.

In my opinion hydro units like the H50 could be a nice bet not only about the performance.
They could be also a choice for the cases that don't have enough clearance for higher heatsinks, to avoid ram memory clearance issues and for people that want a nice clean case instead of having a skyscraper sitting on the CPU.

I'm not saying that people need to avoid water coolers.
I'm just saying that there's a risk about using the water cooler that could be worth or not.
Every person could accept the risk by his personal preference or needs.

So if you don't have issues about air coolers like the 212 or don't looking for more performance I would say there's no reason to put an electric motor in your system, wich have a risk to fail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Is this really true? Have you experienced leaking?
I'm sorry, but whenever I hear someone say "but water leaks!" I have a hard time taking them seriously. I mean, you know, overclocking results in friend out chips!
There's a risk a bus might run into me. I don't think it's very likely, and there are simple precautions I can take to make sure leaks don't occur or motor failure damage (temperature shutdown, motor sensor shutdown, extra clamps onto

hose niplets).

There's many reports about issues in the Corsair hydro coolers like this:

Post by rocketronnie
I just installed an H60 as part of a Scan computers 2500K O/C bundle. All installed correctly, fan power from CPU fan socket, pump power from case fan socket. Fired it up and machine shut down after 10 mins. Re-enterred BIOS to find CPU

idling at 97 degrees.....Pump not pumping.

Post by Jamezz98
I have exactly the same problem. Installed my system about 1 month ago and powered up my machine today and the pump stopped working. PC shut off due to CPU getting too hot. Left it to cool then powered up and went in to the bios and

found the pump speed was 0. Made some bad sounds a bit like what you said before it died.
I have requested a RMA but still awating a reply from Corsair support


http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=98468

I've also heard similar issues in the H100.

The leaking could be another risk.

H100 leaking
http://www.overclock.net/t/1300669/corsair-h100-leaked-onto-my-brand-new-graphics-card-and-motherboard

There's a guy that had a bad experience with the H70
http://www.overclock.net/t/1316985/recommend-me-a-cheap-h70-replacement

Leaking is not only a risk by the Corsair's water coolers.

Antec Kühler H2O 620/920 Club

Post by FifthRocketeer, page 256, post #2557
I am almost tempted to take this statement back. H2o 920 leaked on me over the weekend. And it has damaged my motherboard as well I think. Just have to see what customer support say.

Post by M3TAl, page 256, post #2559
Wow, you're the second person ever to have a leak! Good luck.


http://www.overclock.net/t/990111/antec-k-hler-h2o-620-920-club
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post #17 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
In my opinion hydro units like the H50 could be a nice bet not only about the performance.
They could be also a choice for the cases that don't have enough clearance for higher heatsinks, to avoid ram memory clearance issues and for people that want a nice clean case instead of having a skyscraper sitting on the CPU.

Not an issue for me. I think tower heatsinks, such as my hyper 212, look badass. Although that really doesnt matter because there's this big black metal sheet preventing me from really seeing it.

And I'm using a hyper 212, so I assure you I have the clearance.
Quote:
So if you don't have issues about air coolers like the 212 or don't looking for more performance I would say there's no reason to put an electric motor in your system, wich have a risk to fail.

I have about 10 electric motors in my case right now with 10 fans in there (6x120, 40mm heatsink fan, 80mm heatsink fan, 2x gpu fans). My cpu, motherboard, hdd, all are at risk to fail at any given time too.

Im sorry man but i think your being ridiculous. Do you think custom water loops are just terrible because if you happen to be totally incompetent, they could spill? Okay, I appreciate your concern, if I ever get a closed loop water system, I will make sure to duct duct duct tape the hose quite tight so nothing leaks or fails. these exists certain nipple clamps that prevent leaks from ever happening ever, i'll be sure to invest 2 quarters and a dime for a pack of them to make sure terrible terrible leaks dont occur.
Quote:
There's many reports about issues in the Corsair hydro coolers like this:

And I could post half a dozen stories about *insert whatever CPU or MOBO you use* blowing out. So what. This is absurd.
Quote:
I've also heard similar issues in the H100.

The leaking could be another risk.

I heard the sun gives you cancer. It's why i never leave my room.

Thanks for your feedback, it is duly noted, but meanwhile my temps are about 3-5*c over the limit and my cpu is degrading, all because Im using the hyper 212 instead of a slightly better cooler! if only I could find a good cpu cooler that is at a great value but slightly better performer than the hyper 212, especially considering the h50 is only $30!
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Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
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Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
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Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
Other
Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
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Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
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Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
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Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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post #18 of 97
Own both, used both on many machines. H50 still in use (after almost 4 years bought new in 2009), 212+ on the shelf. Its small and cheap which makes it decent for a budget build, and it does perform nicely for the price but the mounting mechanism is very low quality and its performance on hotter running chips isn't that great.
post #19 of 97
Thread Starter 
But is the performance much better than a 212+ (or anything else out there for under $40) when in equal conditions (same fan setup using same fans kind of thing, ie push/pull on hyper 212+ vs push/pull on h50)

You say its not great on hotter chips but im not sure what you mean. i mean the hyper 212 is a great heatsink in general, there's no argument onthat, but ti sounds like the h50 is significantly better....?
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Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
Other
Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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Antec Earthwatts 430D NZXT Gamma Steelseries Kinzu Optical Steelseries Blizzcon Diablo 3 
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Build In Progress
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Haswell i7-4770K 4.8GHz@1.452v/1.97vRIN Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H Older Gigabyte 7950 (H60 Mod) 2x4GB Gskill 2400CL11 Hynix CFRs 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
Other
Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Earthwatts 430D NZXT Gamma Steelseries Kinzu Optical Steelseries Blizzcon Diablo 3 
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post #20 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I have about 10 electric motors in my case right now with 10 fans in there (6x120, 40mm heatsink fan, 80mm heatsink fan, 2x gpu fans). My cpu, motherboard, hdd, all are at risk to fail at any given time too.

I know that the case fans, the board and the psu could be also fail.

I'm just saying that the water cooler put and additional electrical motor in your system that an air cooler doesn't have.

Usually, for the most purposes an good air cooler is enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Thanks for your feedback, it is duly noted, but meanwhile my temps are about 3-5*c over the limit and my cpu is degrading, all because Im using the hyper 212 instead of a slightly better cooler! if only I could find a good cpu cooler that is at a great value but slightly better performer than the hyper 212, especially considering the h50 is only $30

My bad, I didn't know about that.
I hope that you find a nice replacement for your system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I heard the sun gives you cancer. It's why i never leave my room.

LOL
Without some risk life could be boring.
Yes, now I undestand your point.
300R Rig
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