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[TH] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Windows 8 - Page 37

post #361 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I like how when you right click the bottom left corner you get a windowed menu that is very similar to the old start menu. Then if you click it you get the full size metro screen, which functions enough like the start menu for my uses. I never used any of that stuff tpi2007 is on about anyway. Of course I still think that there should be an option to turn it off if people don't want it.

To the other point, I really like the metro apps I've used thus far and the app store has a lot of neat stuff in it that works very well with the metro interface...

You mean the "Power user" menu ? Are you serious ? It has nowhere near the same functionality as the Start menu. Are we talking about the same thing ? Most of the stuff that appears on that menu should be included in a sub menu in the Start menu. I even have a suggestion for that. Make the Control Panel button have a secondary button to the right, exactly the same as the Shut Down button as , with all the options the "Power user" menu has. There, problem solved, we now have an even better Start menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal7trance View Post


I'm going to make this real simple. It sounds like you're trying to over complicate Windows 8. I do agree that Windows 8 should have more options to change things, like I was shocked how little options you get to change the start menu.

You made question number seven too confusing as well, the way you explain it it makes you sound like you don't know how to move a file from one folder to another. I'm sure you do know how to but it's really horribly written. Now if you are saying you don't like the windows media player, then don't use it. I never have.

I'm trying to over complicate Windows 8 ? That doesn't even make sense. The fact is that the Start screen is a dumbed down Start menu, with less functionality.

Question number seven is not complicated at all. It is just describing how clunky it is to work with two desktops that don't even interact properly with each other and cites the concrete example of how they messed up the location of the Shut Down, Restart, Sleep, Hibernate, etc, options. It really is that simple. Read it again.

And, no the way I explained the other paragraph, which was in a different quote altogether (you just broke the quotes when you answered my post) it makes perfect sense. I know how to move one file from one folder to the other, that is not the question, the question is that I did not know where the file was, so I searched for it using the Start menu and then copied it from there to the memory card window, and the point is you can't do this by using the Start screen!

And what does the Media Player have to do with anything ? Seriously, I have to ask, did you even use Windows 8 ? Search for a file in the Start screen, then click on it. It does not open a file manager window with the file on it, it opens the file. If it is a text file it will open Notepad or Wordpad or Word, or whatever the application associated with the file type is, if it is a video file it will open in whatever program is associated with it. How does this make it copying the file to another folder / storage device any easier ? You can't drag the Media player window with the file playing into the destination folder, can you ?
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/20/12 at 3:40pm
 
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post #362 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Lol, what a biased way to build an argument. I point out objective things that can't be done with the Start screen versus the Start menu, yet I "hate", and you continue to defend that they just changed things, that things are different, that they just changed locations, when in fact the Start screen is a poor substitute for the Start menu.

Removing is a form of changing. You think it's a poor substitute, I like some of the way it does things. Maybe it's because I never used Windows 7 to its "fullest," as one person claimed. I consider myself a power user, but not a power user of power users that use every tiny function.

You like recently used applications. I like organized icons with everything in the same place, which is why I primarily used my desktop for icons. However, when changing resolutions this always got messed up, and I gave up organizing it after a while. With the Start Screen, it never gets messed up.

Jumplists... every program that I use jumplists with is pinned to the taskbar, same way I used it in Windows 7. I never used jumplists in the start menu. As for why it was removed, maybe they haven't figured out a good way to implement it on the Start Screen. Or deemed it unnecessary for the Start Screen. Either way, it's an issue that will affect some people, and others not at all.

Search categories: since the search function now also searches apps, I can see why they chose to segment it the way they did. Maybe it should an option to display files, settings, and apps right away, with selection for specific categories later. However, it's not something that particularly bothers me, and probably won't bother a lot of people either.

Search: okay, valid complaint. However, it's still a first implementation, and there are a lot of things that can (and should be) improved. I have never once stated that the Start Screen is without problems. However, for me I usually look for the file by browsing folders first, since I generally remember where I put everything. If I can't find it, that's when I use search, and by then I'm usually in File Explorer and would just to straight to the search function in it. Again, something that will bother some people more than others, depending on how they use their computer.

Search functions: You basically said it. First implementation, and not perfect. At least it does give you the ability to open the file location where you can access context menus in File Explorer. I believe they will eventually add that functionality, probably in later service packs.

Desktop notifications in Metro: Valid complaint, they probably haven't figured out the best way to implement a way for the desktop notification system to interact with Metro. Something that I'm sure will be fixed in future updates. However, I use it in a multimonitor desktop, and the Start Screen is always on one of the side monitors, so this is a non-issue for me.

Workflow: Everyone works differently. The way you work is definitely not the way I work, because 99% of the time I do not encounter those annoyances. The only major annoyance I have is with the power menu in the charms bar, and that is something I really do think should be changed. But then again, I'm not rebooting my computer 10 times a day.

So here's what I see as the future of Windows 8:
Start Screen updates to increase functionality and usability for power users.
Traditional Start menu added in for those that really want it (probably won't appear for a while).

Again, not perfect. It's the first time a UI like this was implemented. Microsoft had 15+ years to get the Start menu perfect, and even then there are still some complaints about it.
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post #363 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

I consider myself a power user, but not a power user of power users that use every tiny function.

I couldn't resist...

Yo dawg... I heard you like power using.... so we put a power user in yo power user so you can power use while you power use...


.... I'll see myself out.
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post #364 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

I couldn't resist...
Yo dawg... I heard you like power using.... so we put a power user in yo power user so you can power use while you power use...
.... I'll see myself out.

Light-hearted humor is always appreciated biggrin.gif
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post #365 of 387
I have been watching the whole conversation...I really don't understand why you guys keep arguing, you will never agree with each other so what's the point in trying to convince the other person and I'm mostly talking about eternal7trance trying to convince everyone obviously. Just let it go, each person has his own view and no one hurts anyone with his opinion. So just let it go.
post #366 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post


Removing is a form of changing. You think it's a poor substitute, I like some of the way it does things. Maybe it's because I never used Windows 7 to its "fullest," as one person claimed. I consider myself a power user, but not a power user of power users that use every tiny function.

You like recently used applications. I like organized icons with everything in the same place, which is why I primarily used my desktop for icons. However, when changing resolutions this always got messed up, and I gave up organizing it after a while. With the Start Screen, it never gets messed up.

Jumplists... every program that I use jumplists with is pinned to the taskbar, same way I used it in Windows 7. I never used jumplists in the start menu. As for why it was removed, maybe they haven't figured out a good way to implement it on the Start Screen. Or deemed it unnecessary for the Start Screen. Either way, it's an issue that will affect some people, and others not at all.

Search categories: since the search function now also searches apps, I can see why they chose to segment it the way they did. Maybe it should an option to display files, settings, and apps right away, with selection for specific categories later. However, it's not something that particularly bothers me, and probably won't bother a lot of people either.

Search: okay, valid complaint. However, it's still a first implementation, and there are a lot of things that can (and should be) improved. I have never once stated that the Start Screen is without problems. However, for me I usually look for the file by browsing folders first, since I generally remember where I put everything. If I can't find it, that's when I use search, and by then I'm usually in File Explorer and would just to straight to the search function in it. Again, something that will bother some people more than others, depending on how they use their computer.

Search functions: You basically said it. First implementation, and not perfect. At least it does give you the ability to open the file location where you can access context menus in File Explorer. I believe they will eventually add that functionality, probably in later service packs.

Desktop notifications in Metro: Valid complaint, they probably haven't figured out the best way to implement a way for the desktop notification system to interact with Metro. Something that I'm sure will be fixed in future updates. However, I use it in a multimonitor desktop, and the Start Screen is always on one of the side monitors, so this is a non-issue for me.

Workflow: Everyone works differently. The way you work is definitely not the way I work, because 99% of the time I do not encounter those annoyances. The only major annoyance I have is with the power menu in the charms bar, and that is something I really do think should be changed. But then again, I'm not rebooting my computer 10 times a day.

So here's what I see as the future of Windows 8:
Start Screen updates to increase functionality and usability for power users.
Traditional Start menu added in for those that really want it (probably won't appear for a while).

Again, not perfect. It's the first time a UI like this was implemented. Microsoft had 15+ years to get the Start menu perfect, and even then there are still some complaints about it.

Ok, now we're talking! I admitted in a previous post that usage patterns vary wildly, and that is why Microsoft should account for that, especially when one usage pattern involves using the Start menu frequently.

There is another way to organize your icons while not leaving the desktop, you can increase the size of the taskbar up to almost half the screen, and then select the Auto-hide the taskbar option (or not at all if you have it running on another screen), that will allow you the convenience of having lots of space to have everything organized and also not leaving the desktop.

From a design point of view, there is no efficient way to have a secondary desktop taking you away from the one we already have in Windows 7, I just have the feeling that Microsoft still didn't get it right.

They have been playing with the idea of an active desktop since the days of Internet Explorer 4 for Windows 95, that was actually much more than just a web browser, it turned the desktop into something that would later translate into the desktop gadgets, that Microsoft conveniently dropped for Windows 8, going as far as suggesting people just turn off the service altogether in Windows Vista and Windows 7, because the very existence of gadgets (no matter how well implemented they are), triggers the question - why do you need to have live tiles in a different desktop when you can and do have them in Windows 7 on the desktop ? And why do Metro apps have to run fullscreen when they are fully vectorized ? And why can't they run on the desktop like any other application, in windowed mode if one wants, and have a close button like any other application ? And why don't running Metro apps reside in the taskbar we all know and instead have to reside on their own taskbar ?
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/20/12 at 4:16pm
 
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post #367 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheByt3 View Post

I have been watching the whole conversation...I really don't understand why you guys keep arguing, you will never agree with each other so what's the point in trying to convince the other person and I'm mostly talking about eternal7trance trying to convince everyone obviously. Just let it go, each person has his own view and no one hurts anyone with his opinion. So just let it go.

Reason why I stopped.
post #368 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheByt3 View Post

I have been watching the whole conversation...I really don't understand why you guys keep arguing, you will never agree with each other so what's the point in trying to convince the other person and I'm mostly talking about eternal7trance trying to convince everyone obviously. Just let it go, each person has his own view and no one hurts anyone with his opinion. So just let it go.

Because it's sad when people over complicate things. Could Windows 8 use a few changes? Sure. But we don't need to go back to the old start button ways. You're right, I can't change opinions but I can correct people where they are wrong. Whether they choose to accept that is up to them. So far I just see more blind hate for no start button than anything else. Last thing I'll say in here because no one will actually get it anyways.
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post #369 of 387
Oh, since I am in suggestion mode, I read a great post by someone in another site (can't remember which) that talked about how Microsoft could have done Metro in a much better way, by integrating it in Media Center. And it makes perfect sense, it would be a desktop application, fully compatible with your workflow on the desktop, it could run in fullscreen mode or in windowed mode and it basically follows the same philosophy: the Media Center was built with big icons, targeting usage with a remote control in the living room, so the tiles would feel at home in that environment, and you could even configure it to work perfectly with Kinect instead of a remote control, so it would work well on a desktop and laptop, by being an optional application, and it would also work great in the living room.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/20/12 at 4:39pm
 
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post #370 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal7trance View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheByt3 View Post

I have been watching the whole conversation...I really don't understand why you guys keep arguing, you will never agree with each other so what's the point in trying to convince the other person and I'm mostly talking about eternal7trance trying to convince everyone obviously. Just let it go, each person has his own view and no one hurts anyone with his opinion. So just let it go.

Because it's sad when people over complicate things. Could Windows 8 use a few changes? Sure. But we don't need to go back to the old start button ways. You're right, I can't change opinions but I can correct people where they are wrong. Whether they choose to accept that is up to them. So far I just see more blind hate for no start button than anything else. Last thing I'll say in here because no one will actually get it anyways.

So, you don't even bother to answer my last post, but go on saying you can "correct people where they are wrong" (while you already admitted to one mistake you made and had to correct yourself). So ? I'm waiting for your answer. Unless you have none. You just limit yourself to saying clichés like "sad when people over complicate things", when I've proved you blatantly wrong, and your use of arrogance "Whether they choose to accept that is up to them." doesn't make it an argument in itself. Using another cliché like "So far I just see more blind hate for no start button than anything else." when I pointed out lots of objective things to which you were unable to counter-argument also speaks volumes about your non-willingness to have a rational discussion based on facts.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/20/12 at 5:55pm
 
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