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[DailyTech] Windows 8 Usability on PCs for Novice and Power Users Blasted in Study - Page 3

post #21 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post

"Again, why are you using Metro functions on a desktop? "
BECAUSE Windows 8 is a DESKTOP operating system so one should be able to use EVERYTHING in it in a TRADITIONAL DESKTOP. mad.gif

You can use everything on a desktop. Just because you can, doesn't mean you are forced to use it. Right tool for the right job. It's like saying I have to use Notepad instead of Word for writing essays because Notepad is included on the OS. Some common sense, will you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dham View Post

Also I hate seeing things like swipe, slide, touch on my desktop. Would it be so hard for Microsoft to detect if I actually have a touch screen before saying such rude things.

The only "slide" function I need to do with a mouse is closing a Metro app. Everything else is either just clicks or move to corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

DUH. I mean just straight hot DUH.

Uh... no.
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post #22 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You can use everything on a desktop. Just because you can, doesn't mean you are forced to use it. Right tool for the right job. It's like saying I have to use Notepad instead of Word for writing essays because Notepad is included on the OS. Some common sense, will you?
The only "slide" function I need to do with a mouse is closing a Metro app. Everything else is either just clicks or move to corner.
Uh... no.

Doesn't matter what I have to do with my mouse, when I plug in a usb drive and it says touch to continue, that's just rude and lazy. No matter how you look at it. I'm sorry.

In fact Windows 8 just comes off as lazy and half assed to me.
    
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post #23 of 112
Ok without repeating arguments I've made in other threads about how I'm hearing repeated arguments from other threads, I would just like to point out that regardless of what we feel here, if NIELSEN says it's not efficient and why, how could anyone here claim to refute that?
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post #24 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dham View Post

Doesn't matter what I have to do with my mouse, when I plug in a usb drive and it says touch to continue, that's just rude and lazy. No matter how you look at it. I'm sorry.
In fact Windows 8 just comes off as lazy and half assed to me.

I see tap. But whatever, if you're put off by that, you're just being overly sensitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Ok without repeating arguments I've made in other threads about how I'm hearing repeated arguments from other threads, I would just like to point out that regardless of what we feel here, if NIELSEN says it's not efficient and why, how could anyone here claim to refute that?

Because everyone has different work patterns, and for some it will be more efficient, others will be less efficient, and yet others will be the same. Nielsen is not the authoritative figure on how each individual person works.
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post #25 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Because everyone has different work patterns, and for some it will be more efficient, others will be less efficient, and yet others will be the same. Nielsen is not the authoritative figure on how each individual person works.

Yea I get that, but I'm just one to feel that the majority is more pertinent to the topic at hand and that the majority is also a much better signifier of what is likely to become of the OS, and since Nielsen specializes in finding the majority (they're arguably the foremost capable group for doing so on the planet), no offense but I see no real point in defending your preference for it in this case.

edit: trying to find the cutoff for the limit on unreported editing on that one. I'm probably a little OCD.
Edited by un-midas touch - 11/21/12 at 6:30pm
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post #26 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

I see tap. But whatever, if you're put off by that, you're just being overly sensitive.
Because everyone has different work patterns, and for some it will be more efficient, others will be less efficient, and yet others will be the same. Nielsen is not the authoritative figure on how each individual person works.

And it would have taken Microsoft 3 hours to add in detection to tell me to click instead of tap when I'm using a 50 pound desktop machine so I don't feel like a dumbass clicking it.

Derp de derp if a user has an i5 at 4ghz and 5870 he probably doesn't have a touch screen, derp de derp.
    
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post #27 of 112
Here is my favorite quote from the article. I find it pretty much spot on:
Quote:
The situation is much worse on regular PCs, particularly for knowledge workers doing productivity tasks in the office. This used to be Microsoft's core audience, and it has now thrown the old customer base under the bus by designing an operating system that removes a powerful PC's benefits in order to work better on smaller devices.
post #28 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Compare this "study" with Microsoft usability and telemetry data and the study can go smoke a cone. (In theory because no one here would have access to that data....or maybe they do).

I have been addressing that telemetry data thing for a while now. Microsoft relying on telemetry data without understanding people's different work flows in loco is the wrong way to do it, it's like a Formula 1 engineer adjusting an F1 car by only taking into consideration the telemetry data, without talking to the driver.

Besides, Microsoft doesn't disclose what is the userbase for their Windows 7 telemetry data, may I remind you that it is optional, you get to set it during installation. Besides, one of the arguments - a ridiculous one I might add - Microsoft brought up to justify getting rid of the Start menu was that a percentage of people had been using it less, because people could now pin programs to the taskbar. And why is this ridiculous ? Because it's evident. When you have two choices, you may as well start taking advantage of both, naturally the usage patterns will in some cases be split between both, that does not mean that the Start menu has suddenty become irrelevant and, as far as I know, recently used programs don't pin themselves to the taskbar rolleyes.gif (not to mention all the other usability I mentioned previously).

And the fact it hasn't become irrelevant is that they replaced it with none other than three things: the Start screen, the Charms bar and the "Power User" menu (which could easily have been included in the Start menu like I suggested above).
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/21/12 at 7:12pm
 
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post #29 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I have been addressing that telemetry data thing for a while now. Microsoft relying on telemetry data without understanding people's different work flows in loco is meaningless, it's like a Formula 1 engineer adjusting an F1 car by only taking into consideration the telemetry data, without talking to the pilot.
Besides, Microsoft doesn't disclose what is the userbase for their Windows 7 telemetry data, may I remind you that it is optional, you get to set it during installation. Besides, one of the arguments - a ridiculous one I might add - Microsoft brought up to justify getting rid of the Start menu was that a percentage of people had been using it less, because people could now pin programs to the taskbar. And why is this ridiculous ? Because it's evident. When you have two choices, you may as well start taking advantage of both, naturally the usage patterns will in some cases be split between both, that does not mean that the Start menu has suddenty become irrelevant. So much so, they replaced it with none other than three things: the Start screen, the Charms bar and the "Power User" menu (which could easily have been included in the Start menu like I suggested above).

having the traditional smart menu would have produced an even stronger jackle and hyde situation.

as far as the study itself goes, more than half of the criticisms fall under the heading of "it's radically different and people have to learn something new." that's a legit criticism for corporate, given they have to retrain people, but it can't be seen as an indictment of the os itself. the point he brings up about poor support for large monitors, dual monitors, and not being able to show multiple documents on screen are legitimate though.
post #30 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post


having the traditional smart menu would have produced an even stronger jackle and hyde situation.

as far as the study itself goes, more than half of the criticisms fall under the heading of "it's radically different and people have to learn something new." that's a legit criticism for corporate, given they have to retrain people, but it can't be seen as an indictment of the os itself. the point he brings up about poor support for large monitors, dual monitors, and not being able to show multiple documents on screen are legitimate though.

Personally, I think that Microsoft's whole approach is wrong. And, you're right, bringing the Start menu might make Windows 8 feel even more like two OSes badly glued together, but at least usability would be brought back for desktop users.

The problem with Windows 8 on the desktop is that they are sacrificing their desktop users in order to leverage the brand name into mobile. This has several consequences. First of all, it's not very intelligent. Windows Mobile, or now Windows Phone has never been about windows, and the fact Microsoft keeps trying to call it Windows is a mistake. Apple called their mobile OS iOS, and Google called it Android. People want something new and fresh. Windows is the good old Windows from the desktop and laptop, mixing it with mobile stuff is already questionable, mixing it with an OS that doesn't have, you know windows, is branding gone wrong. Microsoft could have come up with something better.

Secondly, they are insulting desktop users. They took a long established desktop OS and inverted the paradigm without so much as providing the older method. The paradigm on the desktop is that Metro should be an application on the desktop, not the desktop being an app for Metro. This crucial decision defines Windows 8, and it is why I think it will be very hard to fix it without putting the paradigm right first.

A way to do it would be to develop Metro to work inside Media Center. As I mentioned in another post, they missed a golden opportunity to leverage the work they already have done with Media Center. Media Center respects the paradigm, in the sense it's a desktop application, it can work in windowed mode or in fullscreen, is built around big icons, and can be controlled with a remote in the living room. Now add Kinect to that, along with Touch and Live tiles and the Windows store, and you'd have an all-in-one for the home, be it in the office or in the living room. The Start menu wouldn't feel out of place, as it would still be the place to have your programs and access to the OS's main features, and the Media Center would be your one stop to the Modern style apps. I would prefer if Modern style apps could run on the taskbar and be resizeable as any other application, but if API not permitting, running inside Media Center would be the next best thing. Windows 8 would have been regarded as a solid step in the right direction, without upsetting people.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/21/12 at 7:05pm
 
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