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Korean S-IPS Monitors vs Dell UltraSharp Monitors Compared - Page 5  

post #41 of 126
What is the point of this thread? Is it for more bias talk? That is what I would assume anyhow. Purchasing a monitor should be based off a list of your personal needs. A comparison ought to be made on a model basis instead of a brand line. If you were expecting your display to do it all without a flaw, then you are simply wrong. There is no such display technology today. OLED is better to an extent. Keep in mind that it too cannot display to whole color spectrum and etc... There will be room for improvement for years to come. We will no longer be alive before they reach the pinnacle. Nowadays the ones we do have are fairly decent with all due respect. Consumer grade graphics processing units are capable of displaying 8-bit per color depth. Most software programs do not utilize anything beyond that. Even your blue-ray player does not go any higher than 8-bit; period. 6-bit in-plane switching monitors use dithering. You yourself cannot tell the difference. Without the use of calibration tools, there is a good chance it is off as well. In terms of quality control, none have never had issues. High-end models are even subject to stuck and or dead pixels. Any can be damaged in shipment. Most offer a decent manufacture warranty. You can easily extend it through a reputable vendor. Now as far as cosmetics go, why should it matter? I do agree displays with hideous bright colors or oblong shapes would be most unwanted. Chances are it is a cheap twisted nematic display. It is not very often you see that with higher-end lines. Thick bezels could be a problem for those intending to have multiple monitors. You can add that as another need in your list. It is not like you are being forced to buy any one of them nonetheless. Get whatever best fits your needs. Be happy afterward until something else better comes along that does it all better. Quit being so OCD. lol
Edited by Geek Branden - 11/26/12 at 11:28am
post #42 of 126
Thread Starter 
I'd rather have a glossy panel with much higher image quality than a non-glossy panel with graininess and distortion.

Just sayin'.
post #43 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehler View Post

I'd rather have a glossy panel with much higher image quality than a non-glossy panel with graininess and distortion.
Just sayin'.
Dear Koehler,
You are going off of one picture, which happens to have no source. Go show us some proper evidence.
- Sincerely a PCBank owner.
Edited by Eagle1337 - 11/26/12 at 6:35pm
post #44 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehler View Post

I'd rather have a glossy panel with much higher image quality than a non-glossy panel with graininess and distortion.
Just sayin'.

Funny.

I'd rather have an AG panel with much higher image quality than a Crossover. Especially if that monitor comes with a better warranty, better stand, better build quality, more features, better connectivity and better support. That is, if it cost the same.

Just sayin'.

All you're really saying is you hate the AG coating on the U2711. Which is completely understandable. Do not, however, conflate that with saying that the Crossover monitors have better image quality. By every technical standard available, they do not.
post #45 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehler View Post

I'd rather have a glossy panel with much higher image quality than a non-glossy panel with graininess and distortion.
Just sayin'.
Dear Koehler,
You are going off of one picture, which happens to have no source. Go show us some proper evidence.
- Sincerely a PCBank owner.

Yep, lets see some actual testing.
That image, I've found seems to be from an ad, with no credible information on its source.
 
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post #46 of 126
The U2711 does not have better image quality than the Korean S-IPS panels, except for the stinkers (IPS vary quite a bit between the same units in terms of gamma [good units will do around 2.2 while bad ones will do around 2.0 or 2.4] and contrast [it vary's by up to 33%]). It has better build quality (than most) and a better warranty.

The U2711 is a wide gamut display=over saturated and inaccurate colours except when calibrated and used with colour aware programs/applications. Most users have no need for a wide gamut display. The U2711 has an sRGB mode, but a normal sRGB IPS/PLS will have better sRGB colours and all of the good, newer 27" 1440 S-IPS, PLS and AH-IPS (Dell U2713) have better black levels/contrast, sRGB colours and much better coatings (glossy, glass and semi-glossy=light matte coating).

The picture Kohler posted is from Overclock.ru monitor reviews and was originally posted by me (by MenacingTuba, forgot my password). The reviewer, =DEAD=, used to say he didn't notice the grainy coatings and that people were making a big deal about nothing...until he reviewed the U2711. In his U2711 review he stated that the first thing he noticed when turning the U2711 on was how grainy it was.

Here is his most recent review: http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/50851/Nepohozhij_na_sebya._Obzor_i_testirovanie_monitora_ASUS_PB278Q.html and here is the most recent image:

The PB278Q, S24/27A850D, U2713, S24A350T, FP241W and X2775 all use semi-glossy coating (the lightest matte coating which does an excellent job of not being reflective) which is why the pixels are so much clearer than most. LG has/will be using semi-glossy coating on most of the new IPS panels...the reason? Companies are tired of loosing money on all the returned displays.

The new slim bezel 27" 1080p IPS line (IPS277L, AOC i2757Fm/Fh, ViewSonic VX2770SMH-LED) all use removable matte stickers, so if one is a glossy fan they can simply pull off the matte sticker.
Edited by MenacingTubaNCX - 11/26/12 at 11:44pm
post #47 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTubaNCX View Post

The U2711 does not have better image quality than the Korean S-IPS panels, except for the stinkers (IPS vary quite a bit between the same units in terms of gamma [good units will do around 2.2 while bad ones will do around 2.0 or 2.4] and contrast [it vary's by up to 33%]). It has better build quality (than most) and a better warranty.
The U2711 is a wide gamut display=over saturated and inaccurate colours except when calibrated and used with colour aware programs/applications. Most users have no need for a wide gamut display. The U2711 has an sRGB mode, but a normal sRGB IPS/PLS will have better sRGB colours and all of the good, newer 27" 1440 S-IPS, PLS and AH-IPS (Dell U2713) have better black levels/contrast, sRGB colours and much better coatings (glossy, glass and semi-glossy=light matte coating).

Wide gamut has over saturated and inaccurate colors when calibrated for 100% AdobeRGB; it's because the RGB values are different between adobeRGB and sRGB obviously. You're right, most users don't need them but for there are people that have a need or use for it. Also, a normal sRGB IPS having better sRGB colors? That doesn't really make sense. Panels aren't determined by what color models they support, a wide gamut monitor can be easily calibrated for 100% sRGB coverage and will be just about as accurate as a run of the mill monitor (about 72% NTSC = 100%sRGB). Hell, even junk TN panels can come within 90+% easily with better ones achieving excellent color accuracy. You're confusing yourself by comparing color presets on the monitors and you're blowing the entire color accuracy thing out of proportions. Fact is most modern monitors can achieve excellent accuracy, but only IPS panels have excellent consistency due to ultra wide viewing angles. Also, contrast and black will vary from unit to unit of any monitor, including high-end models like the U2711 and the cheaper U2713HM but in most cases it will still range from around 700-850 calibrated in most cases with a fairly decent black point. My point is the difference between the types of panels is going to be marginal. Unless you have substantial evidence proving otherwise I'm going to call out your claim as ridiculous.

Oh and:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm TFTcentral's review of the U2711
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2713hm.htm their review of the U2713HM
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1265617565 Review of the U2711.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1347521897 Review of the U2713HM
Take a look at the contrast ratios after calibration as well as black points.

As for AG coating. Some people are more susceptible to its effects than others. And lighting conditions can definitely affect it same as glossy coats. I personally cannot use glossy screens at all. It's okay with small devices, like phones, that I only glance at momentarily but for long-term viewing I can't stand it. I'll just say this: judging a monitor based on close ups of sub-pixel arrangements isn't a good way of determining how good it looks to you.
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post #48 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

As for AG coating. Some people are more susceptible to its effects than others. And lighting conditions can definitely affect it same as glossy coats. I personally cannot use glossy screens at all. It's okay with small devices, like phones, that I only glance at momentarily but for long-term viewing I can't stand it.
Exactly this. A glossy bezel is enough to put me off, but a fully glossy panel with no coating? Please, just leave me with my U2410. Speaking of bezels though, I would like it if Dell took the U2410 and trimmed the bezel down as far as they possibly can, bumped up the panel tech to either AH-IPS or P-IPS, pushed the resolution to 4k (keeping it 16:10, as well), and packaged it as, say, a U2420, but I can definitely live with the '10.
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post #49 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

.

I addressed the contrast/gamma variances in my first post. Most users do not and never will own a colorimeter, so the calibrated image quality is basically irrelevant and I already stated that there are people who need wide gamut displays. Out-of-the-box colour accuracy is one of the most important aspects of a good display. Many of the non high-end wide (the U2711 is a mid range display, NEC, Eizo and Lacie offer high end wide gamut displays) gamut displays can't display certain colours properly (the most popular being the U2410 and U2711) when using the sRGB mode, even when calibrated.

TFT Centrals calibrated contrast is usually lower the most other sites because he uses a X-rite i1 Pro Spectrophotometer for calibration which has can only read black levels from around 0.19 and up and he uses an i1 display 2 to measure the calibrated black level and brightness which is not meant to be used with LED back-lit displays and the accuracy deteriorates with age. The U2711 FlatPanelsHD reviewed was an anomaly, most other review sites units could only do <800:1 before calibration and 6-700:1 after. Sure it is possible, and likely that there are other U2711's out there like FPHD's, but the majority of review units have low contrast. Playerwares recently reviewed an Asus PA246Q with a 1200:1 contrast ratio! Pretty much every other review unit could only do around 600-700:1. Maybe newer U2711's are allot better

I had a single 60w 6500k light bulb in my room, after calibration (120 nits), once the contrast starts to go below 800:1, blacks start to become grey. Depending on how bright ones room is, low contrast may never be an issue, even when the brightness is cranked.

Taking macro photo's of the AG is the only way to show users the differences between the different types of coatings aside from seeing them in real life. I never said that glossy displays are better, my main point was that semi-glossy coating is far superior to the grainy stuff LG has been using and it has obviously become a major issue, other wise they would never have changed it. HP even changed the coating on the ZR2740W to semi-glossy.

Nothing anyone says can truly be substantiated because there are only around 10 sites which properly review displays and usually only a small handful of reports from users who own colorimeters. How many displays are actually sold? Probably tens of thousands, so 10/10,000 could or maybe even does mean nothing, but when review sites from around the world come up with similar results it becomes easy to assume that many are similar.
Edited by MenacingTubaNCX - 11/27/12 at 1:50am
post #50 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTubaNCX View Post

The U2711 does not have better image quality than the Korean S-IPS panels, except for the stinkers (IPS vary quite a bit between the same units in terms of gamma [good units will do around 2.2 while bad ones will do around 2.0 or 2.4] and contrast [it vary's by up to 33%]). It has better build quality (than most) and a better warranty.
The U2711 is a wide gamut display=over saturated and inaccurate colours except when calibrated and used with colour aware programs/applications. Most users have no need for a wide gamut display. The U2711 has an sRGB mode, but a normal sRGB IPS/PLS will have better sRGB colours and all of the good, newer 27" 1440 S-IPS, PLS and AH-IPS (Dell U2713) have better black levels/contrast, sRGB colours and much better coatings (glossy, glass and semi-glossy=light matte coating).
The picture Kohler posted is from Overclock.ru monitor reviews and was originally posted by me (by MenacingTuba, forgot my password). The reviewer, =DEAD=, used to say he didn't notice the grainy coatings and that people were making a big deal about nothing...until he reviewed the U2711. In his U2711 review he stated that the first thing he noticed when turning the U2711 on was how grainy it was.
Here is his most recent review: http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/50851/Nepohozhij_na_sebya._Obzor_i_testirovanie_monitora_ASUS_PB278Q.html and here is the most recent image:
The PB278Q, S24/27A850D, U2713, S24A350T, FP241W and X2775 all use semi-glossy coating (the lightest matte coating which does an excellent job of not being reflective) which is why the pixels are so much clearer than most. LG has/will be using semi-glossy coating on most of the new IPS panels...the reason? Companies are tired of loosing money on all the returned displays.
The new slim bezel 27" 1080p IPS line (IPS277L, AOC i2757Fm/Fh, ViewSonic VX2770SMH-LED) all use removable matte stickers, so if one is a glossy fan they can simply pull off the matte sticker.

The Samsung S24A350T probably has the best image quality out of the compared except for the CrossOver 27Q LED.
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