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Intel Budget System - Page 3

post #21 of 48
God damnit don't be a mindless fanboy dude, did you even read what I said?
In most gaming scenarios the i3-2100 is neck and neck with a Phenom II X4.

"AMD's highest end CPU's may be inferior to Intel's highest end, but you can't just go ahead and say "AMD CPU's are in every-way inferior to Intel". It's not like an i3-2100 is going to beat an FX-8320, eh?"

And the "hierarchy" chart on Tom's Hardware doesn't mean anything - are you trying to tell me that the i5-2300 performs the same as the i7 3770K? They must do according to this, because they're on the same level of this super accurate hierarchy!

Yes Intel have better CPU's at the top of the line, I know. That is fact.
But some of AMD's chips beat some of Intel's chips, and in this super low budget scenario the AMD's APU is not a bad idea. Shame on you for being so ignorant as to instantly say OH ALL AMD CHIPS SUCK.
Synthetic benchmarks prove nothing - if this rig is for gaming, I want to see FPS in games. I don't care how quickly it can perform in some synthetic benchmarks. In a budget rig you keep the price as low as possible with whatever runs your games.

And I didn't say get a Sandy Bridge, I said get a Sandy Bridge Pentium chip wth.gif
As in, the Pentium G630 etc. Seriously you need to properly read my posts, don't just skim them..
Edited by TheLastNarwal - 11/23/12 at 3:20am
    
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post #22 of 48
Thread Starter 
If you do not provide quantifiable information, then you are just flaming. Tom' s Hardware are hugely respect within industry and know exactly how to run the tests in a fair and precise manner. Manufacturers work hard trying to get Tom's Hardware approval, many releasing firmware and updates at the request of the website.

The Piledriver core is what AMD are hoping will save them. Intel's budget range contains enough power to power a single GPU card and has 4 cores(2 physical 4 Threaded). This is more than enough as long as he stays @ 1080p and doesn't want SLi.

I think you are going to be shocked when I tell you what this little machine is going to be capable of. Sure its not a Watercooled i7 SLi beast like mine, but thats not the point. He is starting at the other end of the ladder where I started once. He doesn't want AMD himself. 1 year from now he wants to pop an i5 sandy in there. For someone though who has only ever owned console. This machine is going to rock his world.
 
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post #23 of 48
Actually Tom's is known for being biased in alot of articles.... just putting it out that you might want to source info from different sites and not just Tom's

You don't have to go nVidia, Ati 7xxx cards have quite a bit of grunt in them for less $ than nVidias 6xx counterparts. PhysX depending on peoples opinion is slightly gimmicky, you can also run it off a 2500k @ 4.2+GHz in CPU mode quite decently. Either that you need a second dedicated PhysX card or SLI to be able to run it in GPU mode otherwise you'll get a dip in FPS on whatever you are playing.

Also on the PSU comments I'd recommend reading from Phaedrus's PSU articles, it'll explain alot better than Tom's or any other Tech website as to why everyone comments on how important a good PSU is. Check out especially the Ripple, PSU Voltages and Motherboard VRM's. If you have questions on PSU's then this is the guy to go to, hes somewhat of a legend on here tongue.gif

Otherwise the rest of the build can be highly variable, if your mate knows hes going up to Sandy or Ivy then just make sure the motherboard he gets is decent and he can upgrade later. AMD builds are still fairly decent and will get him frames decently but compared to what intel offers in the "higher" end it starts to drop off
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post #24 of 48
Thread Starter 
physX can not run on a CPU mate, there are too many parallel computations taking place. Even my 3930k would struggle to maintain any sort of a frame-rate if it is was to start decompiling physX, and it supports 12 threads.

I already owned a Kepler series GPU, the GTX 680 in mine. The power draw is so minimal for a high end card. The GTX 660 is a true Kepler. My PSU is OCZ ZX 1250w, he has a smaller version.

I am sorry but I do not count forum post as sources of information, they are more sources of inspiration and innovation. Only genuine articles written for a professional company in a professional structured manner, are considered countable as a reference by the educated community. Anything I am told on a forum I externally verify the information using quantified sources.

And I am sorry mate but I am getting fed up of saying this you are the 4th and last person. The 2GB GTX 660 hurting its AMD rivals. AMD day's as a cheap GFX card manufacturer are coming to an end, as nVidia slash prices and introduce mid range cards with exceptional performance. It's funny how both Intel and nVidia are both turning the screw on AMD at the same time.

AMD are in alot of trouble, dwindling sales in all sectors, public image is the lowest ever of the company. The only saving grace they have are the next gen consoles which both Microsoft and Sony are rumored to be using AMD crossfire cards. AMD does not have half the amount of money as Intel for R&D. In a rapidly expanding market this isn't an ideal position. AMD also has competition from ARM processors, as this technology get better it too will squeeze AMD. ARM is already quad-core, and tiny with low power use. This is a more realistic market position for AMD, but it lacks Intels 22nm tech, so looses again through not being able to compete. Intel is already targeting the tablet CPU market.

As sad as it is people need to let go of AMD if they want a nice computer be it budget, mid range or high end then it needs to be an Intel chip. The only people who buy AMD are gamers on a budget who think they got a bargain, with there incompatible hardware, most games use instruction sets optimize for Intel and nVidia. Due to high end systems leaning towards this configuration.
Edited by SuPaTeD - 11/23/12 at 5:39am
 
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post #25 of 48
Thread Starter 
Last 2 parts arrive tomorrow. Will start the log when they arrive.
 
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post #26 of 48
Toms hardware CPU chart is a horrible source to use. It is not based on just performance but also price/performance (with no revisions for price changes) this is why it rates 4170 ahead of 8120 and the Phenom II 965BE is cruising down so low (the price basis on those Ph II's is from back when they were new), it also doesn't account for OC possibilities (though thats understandable). They also seem to tailor the pricepoints to certain chips rather than having fixed pricepoints and finding the best in that point that month and even here they make little sense on the .co.uk the best £70 or under is a pentium this month.... I would take the easily available for around £60 965BE over that anyday. Their GPU articles are the same they seem to decide the cards they like then make pricepoints for those recommendations, they also don't research well as they find no card for the £270 bracket despite the GTX670 being reasonably available in that price area. Anyway thats my 20 pence worth on that wink.gif

That said though I think you have a nice enough budget build especially as he is going from a low end laptop.
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post #27 of 48
Thread Starter 
The chart is being constantly updated. New CPU models are being added to it all the time. The hierarchy chart only takes performance into account. Your facts are wrong on this.

I have looked at endless benchmarks of the 2100. The chip is as solid as they come. My friend wants an Intel bid. What doesn't help AMD's case for him is the last CPU he had. The Athlon II X2 620. This manages a whole 7Gflops total and was pathetically weak. He would then see my i7 2600k @ 5.0ghz pull 160Gflops with HT on so 320Gflops per real core and practically die. Now I now this chip isn't a 2600k with huge overclock but it doesn't pretend to be either. My biggest advantage over him and still is CPU core speed, which is more important for me due to the SLi.

I can't wait to get it all together and have a play with it. When I load up BF3 i'm going to think "Right this cost £375 not £3000 lets see if I can justify that 10x fold price increase that my system demands. I will systemically collate performance information through bench-marking, performance tools, fraps logging during a realistic gaming session with varying genres, not just cut-scenes and demo's, actual me sat there playing @ 1080p. Settings will be adjusted to maintain 60 fps whilst retaining maximum image quality.

For the sake of this build log as-well I will try to log CPU usage as-well, both with HT on and HT off, though I suspect turning off HT will cripple the chip.

For those that also understand it I will provide system performance data (some my be edited )

I am hoping for an enjoyable experience, of all the games I expect BF3 to perform the worst. As I know from my system how nuts the graphics can get. Assassins creed will run really smoothly I predict, as will Batman, Fifa and NFS. These are the important titles to him. I will also use COD: BO2, Upon release of Far Cry 3 we will bench this.

It is then going to be compared against

Intel i7 3930k @ 4.80Ghz 1.28v
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All cooled by a custom watercooling loop.


This system will have no choice but to run at full settings. It too shall have all the same data collected and in the same manner. I think also some screenies would be good too. To show the level of quality difference.
 
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post #28 of 48
PhysX can run on a CPU and it is possible to play at reasonable framerates. Sure it'd be smoother to just get a dedi but at least the option is open for your friend in case he does not want to use 30% of his GPU usage on PhysX.

The PSU comments are not about total power draw of the components, it's about power delivery and how it affects your components when the psu delivers it out of spec which phaedrus explains in those threads. Btw phaedrus works (worked) for eVGA in the PSU department. In any regard if you actually read his posts that I linked and looked up those topics then you would know that other factors need to be taken into account, not just TDP.
Quote:
I am sorry but I do not count forum post as sources of information, they are more sources of inspiration and innovation. Only genuine articles written for a professional company in a professional structured manner, are considered countable as a reference by the educated community. Anything I am told on a forum I externally verify the information using quantified sources.

Then you are missing out on the wealth of knowledge from here and with the people who frequent this (mostly rolleyes.gif ) educated forum community. In all cases you should verify information from any source but to limit yourself to only so-called "geniune articles" is a bit headscratch.gif . You don't need to be a professional to state the truth about stuff, and it is this truth that you verify from multiple sources and do quantitative research on.

It seems you have a distaste for AMD for whatever reason. I don't know where you got your 660 numbers from but this review from Anandtech shows it trading blows with the 7870 depending on the game. The 7870 can also be found at about $20-$40 cheaper than the 660 on newegg. Yes they sell cheap graphics cards, but are the cards themselves cheap in the "bad" sense? Not at all.
Quote:
I have looked at endless benchmarks of the 2100. The chip is as solid as they come. My friend wants an Intel bid. What doesn't help AMD's case for him is the last CPU he had. The Athlon II X2 620. This manages a whole 7Gflops total and was pathetically weak.

You are basing AMD's other lineups with their Athlon range which were not meant for high compute power, hell it didn't even any have L3 cache. Of course its not going to compare to an i7. Does not mean that their other lines are a bad choice. The Phenom range can still hold its own and the FX 83xx are moving up to the ivy i5's at around the same price point. Also you'd be hard pressed to find benchmarks showing intels IGP's beating AMD's APU solutions. For people on a real budget the A8's can offer performance without the need for a dedicated gfx card.

The majority of people do understand that in the CPU department Intel has the lead. What is not necessary is the bandwagon hate bashing of the company because of it, that horse has been beaten dead for a long time.

Back OT, the build is sound for the budget and if your friend is happy with what hes getting then theres no issue left. The only thing I'd point out is the trouble that BF3 has with HT (unless they have fixed that recently). If HT is not avaliable then the performance of the i3 might not be as expected.
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The Hybrid
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post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPaTeD View Post

I think you are going to be shocked when I tell you what this little machine is going to be capable of..

Hi, did you even read my sig rig? I HAVE an i3. I know how it goes dude.
    
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post #30 of 48
Thread Starter 
This machine rocks! It has so much gaming power for a build that was all about value. The experience we get whilst playing games is a very enjoyable one. Windows experience thanks to the SSD is a pleasant and speedy one.

The games that have been ran on the rig so far are Assassins Creed 3, Need For Speed: Most Wanted and FIFA13. All nVidia optimised titles and all have clearly been tested by nVidia for compatibility and experience.

I am going to write this initial report based on my experience using the machine and not stats, I think this is relevant as the intended purpose of the rig was to play today's games with acceptable frame rates not benching and setting records. I will try to be as unbiased throughout as possible. I start with the loading of Windows, this seemed to boot and be ready for commands in about 10 seconds, this is clearly thanks to the SSD. Once inside Windows start-up programs and services do not appear to hang user inputs at all, which are met quickly and responsively by the PC.

Installing games seemed no different to any other gaming rig, this is more due to installation media being much slower than PC's today. The first title we launched was FIFA13, we both love football. I made one change before FIFA13 launches which is to change the power management mode to "prefer maximum performance". FIFA for some reason seems affected by power management switching the frequencies based on load. Once disabled replays, throw-ins and anything which changes the camera angle will no longer caused the card to switch modes as it is running full speed already. I then went into the FIFA launcher and maxed out the settings. The games we then played ran flawlessly and you wouldn't have known the difference between his machine and mine.

Assassins Creed 3 is a BIG download all 13GB's of it. This made our next title we played NFS:MW as AC3 was still downloading. This game I knew was going to test this system alot more, I was not ready for how well the little machine would perform. The game appeared to be getting at least 45FPS at all times, being locked to his v-sync 90% of the time. Areas he would dip would include large built up areas, however my cards the GTX680's also dip in these places. A certain amount of his FPS drop like mine is clearly due to coding. I anticipate his experience with this title will only get better, as they fix the causes FPS droops we both get. At all times the game remained very playable and smooth.

At 11pm that night AC3 finally finished, so we installed it onto the SSD, this took a little encouragement due to Windows wanting the TEMP files, Install Files and Game Files all on the same drive. After editing Windows Environment Variables to use the HDD as temp storage and transferring the install files there as-well we had the space available.

At 12pm we are ready to load it up. My mate and I have been waiting for the game for the best part of a year now. If the machine runs this game poorly I will be in alot of trouble. Needless to say it handled it without so much as a murmur. To be a bit of an arse I maxed the settings out before we started. I wanted to see if it could handle it. Assassins Creed has always been resource hungry. This seems to be a flaw that has been designed out of the new havoc engine. To believe my eyes I had to install Fraps just to give me a read-out of the FPS. My thoughts were well founded as the data confirmed my suspicions that the game never went under 40 FPS and appeared to manage to sustain V-Sync the majority of the time.

On Tuesday the system is being fully performance evaluated, to see just where it ranks in terms of power/price. I would have ran a full set of test already but he was eager to get his hands on it. I can fully recommend this build to anyone who wants to play any of the titles listed above. At no point did I appear to run into a CPU bottleneck either.
 
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Ted
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Intel i7 2600k  AsRock Extrem3 Gen3 GeForce GTX 680 GeForce GTX 480  
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Vegance  60B OCZ Agility 3 Western Digital  LG BluRay 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Nova Xtreme 1080 Radiator EK 680 Plexi Top Acetal/Nickel GPU Block EK Supreme HF Plexi Top CPU Block Alphacool Cape Corp Pro Reservoir 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Swiftech MCR120XP Extreme Performance 120mm Sin... D5 Vario Pump & EK D5 X-Top V2  Full EK Compression Fittings, InLine Temp Senso... Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Viewsonic 24" Logitech G510 1250w OCZ ZX Series Gold Rated 80%+ and Generic... Aerocool X-Predator Evil Black/Orange Edition  
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Trust Pound Shop! Still the best mat ever!!! Creative X-fi An experienced owner 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 950 @ 4.1 Ghz Asus P6X58D-E GTX 480 * 2 12GB Corsair Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
OCZ Vertex 2 SSD 2 x 1 TB Western Digital DVD-RW Windows 7 Home Premium 24" Viewsonic 
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Logitech 1000w Silverstone PSU Being Built :p Logitech 
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Pound Shop! Best Mat i've ever had! 
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