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[X-bit Labs] Intel’s Haswell Could Be Last Interchangeable Desktop Microprocessors - Report - Page 26  

post #251 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsi38t View Post

It really seems like the cpu selection is going to be quite limited with this change.Also heatsinks I imagine will also be permanently mounted.

And then Intel will lose its OCN customers.
post #252 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsi38t View Post

Also heatsinks I imagine will also be permanently mounted.

Why? Are GPU heatsinks permanently mounted? Are Atoms'?
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post #253 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

How many people use their motherboard for more than one CPU anyways? A small minority, even in this crowd.

Correct.
Even with sockets, the days of motherboards supporting multiple generations is ending. With Broadwell going MCM it could be that Haswell's LGA 1150 will be limited to just one generation.

Chipsets moving onto the CPU package means the bill of materials will go down for motherboards and go up for CPUs.

Socket vs no-socket is not the only issue at play here.

This is nothing special for Intel, however if you're implying the AM-series boards haven't lived up to their reputation of backward compatibility, you've got another thing coming.

As for the multiple CPUs in one board... All the time. I upgrade my board, and it gets passed down the line, resulting in 3 CPU/MB swaps. Then I upgrade my CPU later when I can afford that, which results in 3 more CPU/MB swaps. One upgrade for me becomes an upgrade for not only my main rig, but also for the backup rig and Server via hand-me-downs. Having no choice but to get a CPU and board at the same time is a bad thing.

Seriously hoping this is a OEM only thing, although since that would harm my side business of doing repairs for people, Intel can still screw off.
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post #254 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

This is nothing special for Intel, however if you're implying the AM-series boards haven't lived up to their reputation of backward compatibility, you've got another thing coming.

I was talking Intel only. But now that you mention it: FM1.
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post #255 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsi38t View Post

It really seems like the cpu selection is going to be quite limited with this change.Also heatsinks I imagine will also be permanently mounted.

That I find very unlikely for quite some time - barring a specific form factor / OEM requirement, heatsinks are different for every laptop design, so it just doesn't seem logical.
 
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post #256 of 276
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Originally Posted by seepra View Post

Also, I'm not a political radical of any sort but I very much dislike the trend how in every thread there's always a blindly pro-authoritarian person offering one-lined rebuttals at everyone who doesn't share their and the company's view.

This.... seconded.
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post #257 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Yes, I am okay with that. Because the end is inevitable, and it's better for consumers as a whole. Someday, these devices will become so complex that you'll have no say in how they operate.
Don't agree with this....

I liken it to how automakers have made it increasingly more difficult for consumers to change their oil and do basic maintenance.... For the most part, some of their designs make it more difficult just so THEY can make more money... not for the betterment of the consumer.

Sure there is progress.... but in that progress, there is a line where you can see that some of these moves are done for the manufactuer's behalf and not necessarily the consumer's.
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post #258 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFury View Post

Don't agree with this....
I liken it to how automakers have made it increasingly more difficult for consumers to change their oil and do basic maintenance.... For the most part, some of their designs make it more difficult just so THEY can make more money... not for the betterment of the consumer.
Sure there is progress.... but in that progress, there is a line where you can see that some of these moves are done for the manufactuer's behalf and not necessarily the consumer's.
Everything is moving towards the universal "best." There's a "best" architecture out there (at least for general usage), and ever since the dawn of computing, we've been moving towards that "best" architecture. There's a "best" design for an internal combustion engine. A "best" power supply. It's once of science's jobs, really, to discover how to improve things to the point that they cannot be improved anymore. Computers of the future, even by the end of this decade, are going to be very different from how they are today. And someday, they'll reach that universal "best," and you and I have no say in what that "best" is because it is already dictated by the laws of the universe.

I also find that many claims of "they just want our money" are completely unfounded. Do you have access to internal corporate documents that specifically call for making things harder on consumers in order to generate a larger profit? I highly doubt that you do, and unless you bring them forward, your claim can be dismissed. It may seem like things are that way from a consumer's perspective, but without hard evidence, such attacks are empty.

But yes, business do tend to prioritize the profit motive, rather than doing things to improve the lives of consumers. But that is how our economic system works.
Edited by Homeles - 11/30/12 at 9:16am
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post #259 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Everything is moving towards the universal "best." There's a "best" architecture out there (at least for general usage), and ever since the dawn of computing, we've been moving towards that "best" architecture. There's a "best" design for an internal combustion engine. A "best" power supply. It's once of science's jobs, really, to discover how to improve things to the point that they cannot be improved anymore. Computers of the future, even by the end of this decade, are going to be very different from how they are today. And someday, they'll reach that universal "best," and you and I have no say in what that "best" is because it is already dictated by the laws of the universe.
I also find that many claims of "they just want our money" are completely unfounded. Do you have access to internal corporate documents that specifically call for making things harder on consumers in order to generate a larger profit? I highly doubt that you do, and unless you bring them forward, your claim can be dismissed. It may seem like things are that way from a consumer's perspective, but without hard evidence, such attacks are empty.
But yes, business do tend to prioritize the profit motive, rather than doing things to improve the lives of consumers. But that is how our economic system works.
I still woudn't call this a "best" in architecture. If that were the case, then why didn't these things stay soldered to the board when PCs first came out... The original PCs had chips that were done this way, but then were made modular which ultimately made the PC become "user friendly" in modifying.

When you do these things, you make the whole CPU/Mobo an appliance... and honestly, just like most appliances, they are designed with "planned obselesence" in mind in order to create repeat purchases... not necessarily to "better the design". Pretty much, this is just a play for repeat purchasing of more equipment rather than an actual improvement in the technology in my own opinion.

And honestly, lots of folks here tend to agree somewhat with that... which is why you kinda sound like the "devil's advocate" of this process throughout this discussion.
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post #260 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFury View Post

I still woudn't call this a "best" in architecture. If that were the case, then why didn't these things stay soldered to the board when PCs first came out... The original PCs had chips that were done this way, but then were made modular which ultimately made the PC become "user friendly" in modifying.
It's not a best. Not even close. You have missed what I said there. Someday we will hit a point where computer architecture and system design cannot be improved further.

As far as soldering goes, what may have been more cost effective back then is not necessarily more cost effective these days. And it just backs up what I've said — we're still figuring out what's "best."
Quote:
When you do these things, you make the whole CPU/Mobo an appliance... and honestly, just like most appliances, they are designed with "planned obselesence" in mind in order to create repeat purchases... not necessarily to "better the design". Pretty much, this is just a play for repeat purchasing of more equipment rather than an actual improvement in the technology in my own opinion.
And honestly, lots of folks here tend to agree somewhat with that... which is why you kinda sound like the "devil's advocate" of this process throughout this discussion.
I am playing devil's advocate. That's exactly what I'm doing, and I am standing behind the position I've taken as well.

I see this as a more optimal manufacturing solution. A step towards the "best" way to manufacture a computer. Eventually, motherboards will seize to exist in any recognizable form, as we discover how to further integrate and exploit that integration. Heck, you probably will seize to have connectors at at some point, because we will have developed wireless power transfer or other methods of supplying/generating power. Even today, we have technologies like WiDi that make display connectors redundant. The technology isn't perfect, but once things like that start gaining momentum, you'll eventually see video cables disappear completely. And I guarantee that such a transition will be met with the same apprehension that this soldering move has been met with.
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