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post #11 of 37

Still 2014 is the likely date for any consoles right?

 

The current generation really stayed long enough.

 

Man just the other day I had friends over whom believe ps3 is the best way to go for gaming and has the better graphics than PCs (they are probably comparing with a Office PC from 1999) , anyhow when I told them that gaming in PC is way better graphically, they didnt believe. I showed them BF3 with Ultra settings in 1440p, they said it was exactly like in PS3.

 

Now I dont blame them actually. The marketing really advertises Xbox360 or PS3 as the only way in gaming. Most employees in store in USA looks at you like a looser when you tell them you game on a PC. This used to happen when I was living in USA as well.

 

Also some of my friends are fooled that when you connect a PS3 or a xbox360 to a 1080p 42 inch Tv, it is the best looking gaming method ever. Some of them actually think that the bigger the screen gets, the better the video quality is, hence it is exactly the opposite. I do agree that in a bigger screen you MIGHT get into that game better for some people though. However not for me.

 

I stopped arguing few months back. Whenever someone claims that a current gen console is better than a PC visiually, I just say " Yeah man PS3 is something else "

 

I am sure we will have the same conversations with PS4 or the next Xbox in 2016 and on.

post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

The problem with making hardware upgradable is that it defeats the purpose of a console. The games are heavily optimized to run on the console's hardware. By creating an upgrade path, it makes it that much more difficult for developers. Not to mention competitive players want level play fields, not an advantage that goes to the person with the deepest pockets.
Its not the hardware upgrade-ability that makes it hard to develop. Its multiple configurations with multiple hardware sets. If they continue to use, say an evolutionary graphics card from nVidia, and simply place another more powerful version in there once in 2 years then they KNOW what card is being put and developers can simply start using the added horsepower. Its not like they need to provide MULTIPLE choices. They simply need to provide one specific card/CPU or whatever, and make proper specs manuals, hand them over to the developers. In fact if the stick to the same manufacturer then the developer need not do anything extra. They simply code the game and the new beefed up card/CPU simply makes games run better. Kind of like how an APPLE made console might be. There is only on config so the issue of having to develop for PCs with so many configurations is removed.
post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkalra View Post

Its not the hardware upgrade-ability that makes it hard to develop. Its multiple configurations with multiple hardware sets. If they continue to use, say an evolutionary graphics card from nVidia, and simply place another more powerful version in there once in 2 years then they KNOW what card is being put and developers can simply start using the added horsepower. Its not like they need to provide MULTIPLE choices. They simply need to provide one specific card/CPU or whatever, and make proper specs manuals, hand them over to the developers. In fact if the stick to the same manufacturer then the developer need not do anything extra. They simply code the game and the new beefed up card/CPU simply makes games run better. Kind of like how an APPLE made console might be. There is only on config so the issue of having to develop for PCs with so many configurations is removed.

The big problem with that, though, is the the CPU and GPU and RAM etc. inside a console is all very carefully matched with one another. In fact, the RAM is shared on the Xbox 360 between the two. This creates an issue that you just don't see on the PC. On PC we see CPUs that are way ahead of what almost any game would demand, especially when multiple cores are taken into account and very distinct separation in the different modules.

On consoles the issue is that a GPU upgrade would be like running a 6870 on an older dual core. You could probably max the 6870 out but you'd be at the limit of the CPU. Then you change up to a 7870. Suddenly you're maxing the CPU but the GPU is being held back. That's not taking into account the extra RAM that would be required to take advantage of the extra power with higher res textures etc. Which means that the whole lot, CPU, GPU and RAM all need to be interchangeable and you end up with the multi-config optimization problem.

Now, you could argue that they should make sure the CPU is powerful enough to handle any future GPU upgrades, but then that destroys the entire cheap, self contained and optimally configured nature of the console. The whole idea of a console is to match components precisely to give maximum life with minimum outlay, any upgrade-ability would completely destroy that entire objective because of the other bottlenecks that would then be present if it were not kept completely up to date at all times.

EDIT: Also, with reference to your mention of Apple made consoles. Apple products are not made like consoles. They are very limited in their hardware but at no point will you find any of their range maxing out all components of the system like a console designer would be aiming to do to fully utilize the console. Simply: an iPhone is built to do many tasks so for any one task something will be under utilized. A console is built to game, while doing so the CPU and GPU should be fully taxed.
Edited by DirektEffekt - 11/23/12 at 7:27am
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post #14 of 37
This is what John Carmack said about the next-gen consoles:
Quote:
“If you take a current game like Halo which is a 30 hertz game at 720p; if you run that at 1080p, 60 frames with high dynamic frame buffers, all of a sudden you've sucked up all the power you have in the next-generation,” Carmack said. “It will be what we already have, but a lot better. You will be able to redesign with a focus on D11, but it will not really change anyone's world. It will look a lot better, it will move towards the movie rendering experience and that is better and better, but it's not like the first time you've ever played an FPS.”

Source: http://www.techspot.com/news/49111-john-carmack-isnt-excited-about-next-generation-gaming-consoles.html
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post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

specs for consoles are never high-end. They are always based on previous gen technology that is mid-low end. However, because they do not require the extra overhead needed for a multi-part system and its necessary interconnects, consoles are much faster than how they may appear on paper. The games are more heavily optimized and streamlined too.
I think I'm with snipekill2445 on this one though. The next gen consoles will not have anything even remotely close to high-end inside of them... especially not a GTX 690. tongue.gif

False... don't regurgitate incorrect information as if it's true....rolleyes.gif
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post #16 of 37
Thread Starter 
i really hate to say this because i myself own a console. Its on my entertainment center collecting dust. I won't say its trash. i put countless hundreds of hours into the thing. It wasn't until i built my first gaming rig 2 and a half years ago and realized what tru gaming at 1080p was. From there on i feel consoles hold graphics back so bad that my sli rig is playing games with graphics from 2005. Thats why i look forward to next-gen consoles. That way we can all see a boost in graphics.
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post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

False... don't regurgitate incorrect information as if it's true....rolleyes.gif

But it is true, it's the marketing hype that always surrounds new consoles that regurgitates incorrect information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorhunter View Post

It really doesn't matter that much that they have a bit outdated hardware, because everybody focuses to make games on consoles so they manages to make the graphics really good. Xbox 360 was released on 2005, no pc would be in the game for that long without upgrades.

You realize how long consoles have needed an upgrade and haven't gotten it? There are phones out there giving them a run for their money...
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post #18 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirektEffekt View Post

The big problem with that, though, is the the CPU and GPU and RAM etc. inside a console is all very carefully matched with one another. In fact, the RAM is shared on the Xbox 360 between the two. This creates an issue that you just don't see on the PC. On PC we see CPUs that are way ahead of what almost any game would demand, especially when multiple cores are taken into account and very distinct separation in the different modules.
On consoles the issue is that a GPU upgrade would be like running a 6870 on an older dual core. You could probably max the 6870 out but you'd be at the limit of the CPU. Then you change up to a 7870. Suddenly you're maxing the CPU but the GPU is being held back. That's not taking into account the extra RAM that would be required to take advantage of the extra power with higher res textures etc. Which means that the whole lot, CPU, GPU and RAM all need to be interchangeable and you end up with the multi-config optimization problem.
Now, you could argue that they should make sure the CPU is powerful enough to handle any future GPU upgrades, but then that destroys the entire cheap, self contained and optimally configured nature of the console. The whole idea of a console is to match components precisely to give maximum life with minimum outlay, any upgrade-ability would completely destroy that entire objective because of the other bottlenecks that would then be present if it were not kept completely up to date at all times.
EDIT: Also, with reference to your mention of Apple made consoles. Apple products are not made like consoles. They are very limited in their hardware but at no point will you find any of their range maxing out all components of the system like a console designer would be aiming to do to fully utilize the console. Simply: an iPhone is built to do many tasks so for any one task something will be under utilized. A console is built to game, while doing so the CPU and GPU should be fully taxed.

You have entirely missed the point of the Apple analogy. Apple makes set hardware and software and that's the reason that applications etc run perfectly out of the box on the iPhone 4 as they do on the iphone 4s. So you are incorrect. A console that follows the same philosophy is going to be upgradable and hence carry gaming technology forward rather than bog it down with ageing hardware.

What I am saying is definitely feasible and possible. Do I think it will happen - No. Because the idea is to keep costs down and the console end users aren't that bothered with higher fps as they are in the PC space. I am just saying that I for one would be more inclined to purchase an upgradable console as I am an enthusiast ad as such crave for every last ounce of performance.
post #19 of 37
Here so you no longer have to debate you can show the proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_490036&feature=iv&src_vid=o921p4TIzH4&v=xtHAPJulgh0
theres also other videos with lower spec computer like a 8800gt with a quad core vs the consoles even looks better its obvious the winner
post #20 of 37
It'll probably rape single high end gpu's for a year or 2 till gpu power can run most locked at 60fps again. It took pc nearly 2-3 years for single flagship gpu's to run most console ports at 60fps, since next gen consoles are using low specs this time around pc will probably run them high locked right out the gate. I won't be upgrading my gpu for atleast 2 years after next gen titles hit the market that's for sure.
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