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post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
My next upgrade will be a gpu. After that ill upgrade mobo and ram. I dont really think it will be necessary to upgrade cpu for another 5 years. Seems like they really arnt maximizing programs for more then 4 core anyway. By then ill just use this as a htpc. And build completely insane machine. I built the one i have now when the 9800's came out and onlything i did was upgrade mobo and cpu so i had 6 cores instead on the old Athlon 2 core.
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post #12 of 17
At the rate things are going I expect to get 7-10 years from this propus. (have had it for 2 years now). For what I paid for it then (~$100), there really isn't much available to improve on it by a noteworthy margin. I see no reason you shouldn't expect a long service life out of that thuban.
     
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post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Ya and if i get a good mobo and get a stable 4ghz OC then that will add a bunch more time. But after i get my ssd the 9800's will be the big holdback.
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The Heat Box
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Kaveri Build
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AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Asus M3N72-D PNY GTX460 XL8R PNY GTX460 XL8R 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair XMS2 Intel 330 SSD Seagate Barracuda Lite-On IHAS120-04 Internal SATA 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Acer X223Wbd 22" Widescreen LCD Enlight 750w Sli 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec Three Hundred Logitech G500 Gaming Mouse Allsop Raindrop Mouse Pad Sound Blaster XF-i Extreme Audio 
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post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

That old 250GB mechy is undoubtedly the systems most noticeable bottleneck in day to day stuff.
Move all your stuff over on to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167127&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
Then configure the mechy drive as a backup drive.
That leaves you with enough to max out your RAM: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=38282&vpn=TWIN2X4096-6400C5C&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1373
I'd suggest staying on your motherboard and CPU for awhile longer. The next logical upgrade is the GPU IMO, if for no other reason than to get your power consumption down to a reasonable level.
The IMC on phenom II is really designed around DDR2 bandwidth anyway, it doesn't tap into the available bandwidth on DDR3 so swapping to an AM3 board at this time does not make sense to me.

what exactly do you mean by " . . . it doesn't tap into the available bandwidth on DDR3"? Phenom has been supporting DDR3 for a number of years now.

i just want a little clarity - if you don't mind. anyone else can chime in - please.
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post #15 of 17
Hi rdr09,

For reference: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2012/-19-SiSoftware-Sandra-2012-SP4c-Pro,3149.html

Notice the flagship AM3 chip, (1100T), serving up a rather dismal ~12.4GB/ on dual channel DDR3-1333.

12.4GB/s is Dual Channel DDR2-800 performance. Dual channel DDR3-1333 is good for up to ~21GB/s. Notice in the same charts, lynnfield and sandybridge i5 and i7 quads performing ~16-17GB/s on the same dual channel 1333 configuration, -much closer to the available bandwidth of the DDR3. Those intel chips have IMC's that are really optimized to dig into the available bandwidth of DDR3, phenom II does not. The IMC architecture of AM3 took on support for DDR3 but did not take on any characteristics to tap into the available bandwidth of it.

Back when AM3 was the big thing, you may recall people repeating over and over "AMD likes tighter timings, intel likes higher speeds." Of course most people were regurgitating a misunderstanding of what they may have read, or were simply repeating what they had heard. In truth, the best performance you will get from an AM3 IMC will typically fall at whatever speed/timing configuration gives you the LOWEST EFFECTIVE latency. While the intel configurations at that time were often able to tap into MORE of the available bandwidth of higher speeds (latency be danged) up to a point.

I've done personal experiments and found that with my propus at speeds from ~1000-1700MT/s (adjusting to minimum stable timings), the memory performance changes very little. There are sweet spots where the performance is slightly better, and they occur at speeds/timings that I can run stable that result in the lowest effective latency. For example, if dropping from 1600 to 1333 speeds allows me to drop from CAS9 to CAS7, then the effective latency will be better at the 1333 speed, however, if I was stable at 1600-9, but am only able to hit 1333-8, then 1600 is faster. In any case, I have never seen bandwidth exceed that which would be possible on DDR2 speeds.

It's all quite academic. Real world performance is not effected in a tangible or noticeable way by the minuscule differences produced by all that tinkering.
     
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FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
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Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
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FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
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post #16 of 17
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Hi rdr09,
For reference: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2012/-19-SiSoftware-Sandra-2012-SP4c-Pro,3149.html
Notice the flagship AM3 chip, (1100T), serving up a rather dismal ~12.4GB/ on dual channel DDR3-1333.
12.4GB/s is Dual Channel DDR2-800 performance. Dual channel DDR3-1333 is good for up to ~21GB/s. Notice in the same charts, lynnfield and sandybridge i5 and i7 quads performing ~16-17GB/s on the same dual channel 1333 configuration, -much closer to the available bandwidth of the DDR3. Those intel chips have IMC's that are really optimized to dig into the available bandwidth of DDR3, phenom II does not. The IMC architecture of AM3 took on support for DDR3 but did not take on any characteristics to tap into the available bandwidth of it.
Back when AM3 was the big thing, you may recall people repeating over and over "AMD likes tighter timings, intel likes higher speeds." Of course most people were regurgitating a misunderstanding of what they may have read, or were simply repeating what they had heard. In truth, the best performance you will get from an AM3 IMC will typically fall at whatever speed/timing configuration gives you the LOWEST EFFECTIVE latency. While the intel configurations at that time were often able to tap into MORE of the available bandwidth of higher speeds (latency be danged) up to a point.
I've done personal experiments and found that with my propus at speeds from ~1000-1700MT/s (adjusting to minimum stable timings), the memory performance changes very little. There are sweet spots where the performance is slightly better, and they occur at speeds/timings that I can run stable that result in the lowest effective latency. For example, if dropping from 1600 to 1333 speeds allows me to drop from CAS9 to CAS7, then the effective latency will be better at the 1333 speed, however, if I was stable at 1600-9, but am only able to hit 1333-8, then 1600 is faster. In any case, I have never seen bandwidth exceed that which would be possible on DDR2 speeds.
It's all quite academic. Real world performance is not effected in a tangible or noticeable way by the minuscule differences produced by all that tinkering.

Thank you so much for the thorough answer. I did my own test (not sure if it is the right one) and here are my results . . .

13333



oc'ed to 1700



i think it is safe to say that i'll be able to match the Vishera using the same rams speeds (prolly up to 2000MHz). You are right. The Phemon is lacking in this department but I think you would agree that this shortcoming applies to AMD chips in general.

I don't know about Tom's sometimes it is like using WEI as a gauge.
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post #17 of 17
Don't get a 660 Ti when you come around to upgrading the GPU.
Get a 7870 smile.gif
    
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