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post #21 of 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funfortehfun View Post

The current selection of FM2 mini-ITX boards is... (drumroll)
1.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157340
I'd like to see more mini-ITX FM2 motherboards...please, ASUS? rolleyes.gif
Any recommendations on a good low-profile CPU cooler that would fit in this case? I know there's the Thermalright AXP-100 coming out soon.

I used the stock cooler that came with the i5-3570K. I wouldn't really recommend overclocking in this case due to the size and power supply constraints, so there isn't really a huge advantage to using an aftermarket cooler.

I haven't had an AMD chip for a while, but the Intel stock cooler is actually very quiet most of the time. Load temps don't go much over about 60-65C on a 3570K which is well under the thermal limit of that chip.

Whichever cooler you use, I highly recommend using low profile RAM in this case. The Samsung 30nm low profile sticks are excellent and easily hit 2133 MHz on both of my systems using it.
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post #22 of 130

Last time I used an AMD stock cooler it was absolutely horrible. >.<

After lurking around for a bit I found only one good AMD-compatible CPU cooler besides the Kozuti (which is virtually out of stock everywhere): the Noctua NH-L9A. Critical to get the L9A instead of L9I, as the L9A is only compatible with AMD and vice versa for the L9I. My one complaint is the colors.

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post #23 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

There would be zero issues fitting an A10-5800K or any other CPU in here. As long as a Mini-ITX board exists for the CPU that you want to use, you're good to go.
If you wanted to install a more power-hungry CPU like the A10-5800K, you can use a 150W Pico-PSU in place of the standard 90W DC-DC converter. The Pico PSU 150W costs about $45 and will be more than sufficient even for an A10-5800K.
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT

thats $45 without the brick, tbh i have doubt that 150w is enough. if you look at full load figures it can sometimes peak to 190w and average game load is somewhere around 120-150w. ether way all load figures are above 100w so i conclude that the 100W TDP only takes account of the CPU side of things and GPU has yet to be factored in

the A10 5700 will draw a peak of 150w and average of 100-110 during heavy loads. if cpu only load then it goes around 70-75w
post #24 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

thats $45 without the brick, tbh i have doubt that 150w is enough. if you look at full load figures it can sometimes peak to 190w and average game load is somewhere around 120-150w. ether way all load figures are above 100w so i conclude that the 100W TDP only takes account of the CPU side of things and GPU has yet to be factored in
the A10 5700 will draw a peak of 150w and average of 100-110 during heavy loads. if cpu only load then it goes around 70-75w

Thats exactly what I was thinking. And sorry for my previous post asking if the 5800k could "fit" >.<. It was late at night and i was at a loss for words lol. I actually was referring to PSU requirements. On topic, I really want to try this but dont want to waste money and find out it isnt possible. WOuld the stock AMD heatsink work in this case? I have a 5800k already, and it looked quite a bit builkier than the stock intel.
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post #25 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammadj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

thats $45 without the brick, tbh i have doubt that 150w is enough. if you look at full load figures it can sometimes peak to 190w and average game load is somewhere around 120-150w. ether way all load figures are above 100w so i conclude that the 100W TDP only takes account of the CPU side of things and GPU has yet to be factored in
the A10 5700 will draw a peak of 150w and average of 100-110 during heavy loads. if cpu only load then it goes around 70-75w

Thats exactly what I was thinking. And sorry for my previous post asking if the 5800k could "fit" >.<. It was late at night and i was at a loss for words lol. I actually was referring to PSU requirements. On topic, I really want to try this but dont want to waste money and find out it isnt possible. WOuld the stock AMD heatsink work in this case? I have a 5800k already, and it looked quite a bit builkier than the stock intel.

People overestimate PSU requirements all the time.

150W will be more than enough for a A10-5800K provided that it is not overclocked.

The system I built with a 3570K has been running like a champ on the stock 90W PSU. I've put the system through a gauntlet of tests, including tests like Prime95 and LinX, which put unrealistically high loads on the CPU.

I looked at several reviews of the A10-5800K.

Maximum power draw from the wall was 149W for a stock A10-5800K system subjected to unrealistically high loads on both the CPU and GPU. That's power draw from the wall for the entire system, which means the system is only using about 127.5W if you assume the PSU is 85% efficient. A PSU rated at 150W means it can deliver 150W of actual power to the components, or about 175W from the wall. In real-world use, no game would ever load the CPU and GPU as much as running Prime95 and Unigine Heaven at the same time, and so I highly doubt there would be any issues with a PicoPSU 150W and a A10-5800K.

A10_Powerdraw.PNG

If you look at a more realistic scenario, like power consumption while playing Crysis, the A10-5800K system is only using 116W. Idle draw is only 35W. Crysis is one of the most demanding games out there, and we're still well within a 150W power supply's abilities here. Again, this is total system power consumption measured at the wall, meaning the actual system is using only about 100W at full load.

Power.png
Edited by 996gt2 - 12/5/12 at 7:17pm
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post #26 of 130
Just to note on the pico site it does say the following
Quote:
It can power VIA mini-ITX boards with C3 / C7 processors, P3, P4, Pentium-M, Core Duo versions and low power AMD processors.

Not to disagree that it wouldn't work because I do agree most people tend to over estimate PSU requirements. Without any overclocking I don't see an issue, would be nice if someone tried it out though thumb.gif

Edit:
Well after posting I saw you post these charts, seems as though it will be cutting it close. If my knowledge is serving me correct here you have to add the 116 and 35W from that chart together, considering their both in the same system. That would mean the Pico 150W would have to provide 100% power output at load. Not too sure if it would cut it on that processor...
Edited by InsideJob - 12/5/12 at 6:55pm
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post #27 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideJob View Post

Just to note on the pico site it does say the following
Quote:
It can power VIA mini-ITX boards with C3 / C7 processors, P3, P4, Pentium-M, Core Duo versions and low power AMD processors.

Not to disagree that it wouldn't work because I do agree most people tend to over estimate PSU requirements. Without any overclocking I don't see an issue, would be nice if someone tried it out though thumb.gif

Edit:
Well after posting I saw you post these charts, seems as though it will be cutting it close. If my knowledge is serving me correct here you have to add the 116 and 35W from that chart together, considering their both in the same system. That would mean the Pico 150W would have to provide 100% power output at load. Not too sure if it would cut it on that processor...

You're misreading the graphs.

The 116W is full load power draw from the wall for the entire system.

35W is the idle draw. See the key on the bottom of the chart.



***I bolded "from the wall" because every review site gives power consumption from the wall, and that is more than what the system is actually using.

An easy example: a 500W power supply which is 80% efficient will be drawing 625W from the wall at 100% load. That means that the system itself is only using 500W. PSUs are rated in terms of how much power they can deliver to the system, not how much power they draw from the wall. Otherwise, a sketchy PSU company could make a "1000W" PSU that was 10% efficient and only provided 100W to components.

So, for the system above which is drawing 116W from the wall, the actual system is only using about 100W if you assume that the PicoPSU is 85% efficient. So even at full load, the system is well within the abilities of a PicoPSU 150W. Heck, you could probably even get away with using the stock PSU if you undervolted the A10-5800K.
Edited by 996gt2 - 12/5/12 at 7:15pm
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post #28 of 130
dont forget that the PSU is powering the ENTIRE system and not just the CPU/GPU. peak loads are not that unrealistic as well. like said it depends on the game 120-150w on average and peaks at 190w. a 150w PSU will choke abit during heavy gaming.

dont forget about capacitor aging as well as your PSU will decrease in capacity over time. your peripherals all use power as well via USB ports(0.5A per device) etc

I'll be getting a 160w pico and undervolt the 5800k
post #29 of 130
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

dont forget that the PSU is powering the ENTIRE system and not just the CPU/GPU. peak loads are not that unrealistic as well. like said it depends on the game 120-150w on average and peaks at 190w. a 150w PSU will choke abit during heavy gaming.

dont forget about capacitor aging as well as your PSU will decrease in capacity over time. your peripherals all use power as well via USB ports(0.5A per device) etc

I'll be getting a 160w pico and undervolt the 5800k

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All of the power consumption numbers I posted are for the entire system. Just about every review site measures power consumption for the whole system, and it is done at the wall.

The 120-150W "average" that you claim is an over-estimate. 190W is not possible unless the CPU was overclocked. Do you have sources to back up these numbers that you claim? I posted numbers from several reputable hardware review sites, and even under heavy load (Crysis) the peak total system power consumption was tested to be only 116W at the wall (meaning that actual power consumption from the whole system is only ~100W).
Edited by 996gt2 - 12/5/12 at 9:13pm
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post #30 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All of the power consumption numbers I posted are for the entire system. Just about every review site measures power consumption for the whole system, and it is done at the wall.
The 120-150W "average" that you claim is an over-estimate. 190W is not possible unless the CPU was overclocked. Do you have sources to back up these numbers that you claim? I posted numbers from several reputable hardware review sites, and even under heavy load (Crysis) the peak total system power consumption was tested to be only 116W at the wall (meaning that actual power consumption from the whole system is only ~100W).

120-150w is not an overestimate. your crysis power figures are drawing 116w which is pretty close to 120w. its mostly GPU load as well rather then fully stressing the CPU along with it. depending on game if it is multi threaded or not and texture/resolution the draw can be upwards of 150w. CPU and GPU burn test will peak to 190w.

considering that the motherboard, ram and hdd will require around 20w the CPU does exceed its claimed 100w. an overclocked 5800k could draw around 190w during gaming

the thing is each review site has their own methodology of power draws and they vary considerable depending on method but im taking the full burn scenario as my case as that would be the worst case scenario that if a game or application is that demanding that it stresses both CPU and GPU simultaneously the PSU would cope rather then shutting down.

I've read reports of another user running stock volts on a 5700 and their 90w PSU on the ISK quits on them during heavy load and thats a 65w CPU which review sites claim 77w draw during games which obviously the other user's game is more demanding.

so like i said take the figures as a guide or what not but i wont be too confident about 150w for a 5800k. IMO ideally the 5700 would be happier with 130-150w PSU and the 5800k would like 150-200w after all it is a good idea to slightly over provision.

do note that these pico PSU use 12v plug packs and voltages drop considerable under load(according to jonnyguru) and 19v plug packs are much better and that the 12v rails on the pico only accounts for 60-70% of the power while the rest are 5v and 3.3v. for example the ISK110 90w pico has only about 60w on the 12v rail
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