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Intel Core i7-3930K vs Xeon E5-2630 For Long-duration Financial Calculations - Page 3

post #21 of 100
The thing about this sort of work load though is that I would imagine that he would be doing a lot of writes and even though modern SSD's can sustain 10GiB for over 7 years blah blah blah but if you claim to be writing as much as you are, even a 480GB 520 would last about a year.
What about a 64GB ram-disk constantly backing up to a RAID 1 Array.
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post #22 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

Still, even the E7s have this on the box:
Intel products are not intended for use in medical, life saving, life sustaining, critical control or safety systems, or in nuclear facility applications.
wink.gif

It takes forever to certify parts for these kinds of uses. It's usually not an issue of hardware reliability, just the time it takes to discover all the errata in complex CPUs. There is a reason Intel continued to build 386s until 2007, and why they are still used in certain new embedded systems.

I'd probably trust my life to a properly configured and stress tested Xeon E3. The odds of it failing out of the blue within it's warranty period, or stumbling upon relevant, undiagnosed errata, is very small.
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post #23 of 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post

The support and guaranteed build reliability from them is what you pay for. They will be at your door within hours of a machine going down, and will replace parts even when you've screwed them up. I ruined my motherboard when I pulled out a WiFi PCI card from my Dell workstation while it was on (was in a huff about my net constantly crashing and very pissed since it was costing me a deadline) and they came the next morning and replaced my motherboard for me while I made myself a cup of coffee.

I work in the film industry doing CGI effects, and we lean almost entirely on i7 rackmounted machines. Not Xeons. However, if something fails, all that happens is we lose a single 3-20 hour frame calculation (depending on scene complexity) that we can just submit again. I also do commercial and film work from home and own several OC'd 3930K boxes for that purpose, so I've probably got quite a bit of experience along the lines of what you're looking to do.

At the office, all of our floor workstations are Dells because even WITH a tech department that does nothing but deal with machine and software related issues...I don't think we could handle support on 150 computers built from ordered parts; even though the initial cost investment would be a couple hundred thousand dollars cheaper. That buys you 2-3 solid IT guys for a year, but you need those machines to hold up for 3-5.

If we were working on things that took days to compute with no margin of error, we wouldn't dick around with i7s and non-ECC memory...nor would we sacrifice performance. We'd simply spend $1-2K more per machine and be done with it.

My advice to you:

Every time I overspend on computing power for my personal business that I do from home; I never have regretted it once. I recently spent thousands pulling the Z67s and 2600s out of every box I own to replace with X79s and 3930s. I regretted it at first, it cost me a lot of money to gain 30% more power. Yet now I'm rendering a commercial that has been on my render farm for days now even WITH the 3930s...and I had to fork over $1,500 for a cloud rendering service because my stuff couldn't keep up. If I'd been more prepared, I'd have had a couple more machines and been out $3K instead of $1.5K, but at least own the gear and be able to use it "for free" next time.

To put it simply, you will never need LESS computing power than you do right now. So make the investment, carry over the write offs to next year if that helps more. Do not put a price ceiling of $1,500 on a machine that you're going to be relying on to do your work for you. $1,500 should be reserved for boxes that don't get tasks that can keep them at 100% for days.

Buy Xeon E5 Engineering Samples off eBay to save money without sacrificing quality or reliability, and stick them in a good 2P motherboard with 64GB of RAM. Make sure the motherboard supports ECC memory...cosmic rays become less of an issue every time technology shrinks, but in my business, cosmic rays may ruin a pixel or a single frame...in yours, they may ruin an entire analysis.

Get yourself set up with a RAMdrive, and work entirely from that. SSD drives, while fast, whimper off with their tail between their legs when put up against a RAM partition. We're talking 500MB/s versus 6600MB/s speeds.

HELLO! THANK YOU very much for your very helpful reply...and so very detailed!) yes I am thinking of the best and the most stable option to go here....I am interested in the Randrive you mentioned - is it another type of the hard disk or ram??? sounds like a really fast thing!) in short i need the most stable and powerful pc that I can afford - do you think that XEON E3 1275 V2 with 4 cores at 3,5 ghZ CAN PULL OF 4 VIRTUAL MACHINES EACH RUNNING EXCEL 2007 AND MATLAB on autopilot??
post #24 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

It takes forever to certify parts for these kinds of uses. It's usually not an issue of hardware reliability, just the time it takes to discover all the errata in complex CPUs. There is a reason Intel continued to build 386s until 2007, and why they are still used in certain new embedded systems.
I'd probably trust my life to a properly configured and stress tested Xeon E3. The odds of it failing out of the blue within it's warranty period, or stumbling upon relevant, undiagnosed errata, is very small.

thank you very much for your reply....do you think that XEON E3 1275 V2 with 4 cores at 3,5 ghZ CAN PULL OF 4 VIRTUAL MACHINES EACH RUNNING EXCEL 2007 AND MATLAB on autopilot??
post #25 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivr56 View Post

If you want near 100% reliability go with Dell so your somewhat guaranteed uptime. Next business day/overnight replacement on hardware and parts is a good thing as well.

thanks.....do the Dell provide worldwide guarantee????
post #26 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

something like a RevoDrive 3 X2 Max IOPs would be pretty reasonable as well. That way you don't have to learn how to manage volatile storage.
My apologies - I should've double checked and pushed the E7 chips instead. Since I wasn't writing up a quote, I just threw out the word xeon and checked newegg.
Still, even the E7s have this on the box:
Intel products are not intended for use in medical, life saving, life sustaining, critical control or safety systems, or in nuclear facility applications.
wink.gif
Because those require certifications.

E7 are designed for mission-critical systems though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dima777 View Post

HELLO! THANK YOU very much for your very helpful reply...and so very detailed!) yes I am thinking of the best and the most stable option to go here....I am interested in the Randrive you mentioned - is it another type of the hard disk or ram??? sounds like a really fast thing!) in short i need the most stable and powerful pc that I can afford - do you think that XEON E3 1275 V2 with 4 cores at 3,5 ghZ CAN PULL OF 4 VIRTUAL MACHINES EACH RUNNING EXCEL 2007 AND MATLAB on autopilot??
Why would you run in VMs?

Also, why Excel 2007? Excel 2010 has some improved algorithm performance:
http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-excel/archive/2009/09/08/more-on-performance-improvements-in-excel-2010.aspx

You might want to benchmark if these improvements benefit you.
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post #27 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Because those require certifications.
E7 are designed for mission-critical systems though.
Why would you run in VMs?
Also, why Excel 2007? Excel 2010 has some improved algorithm performance:
http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-excel/archive/2009/09/08/more-on-performance-improvements-in-excel-2010.aspx
You might want to benchmark if these improvements benefit you.


thank you for your reply...I need 4 VMs to each analyse its own time frame of the 50 currency pairs....the analysis will be performed identically for each time frame of the 50 currency pairs....so to analyse it all in parallel I am thinking of breaking the whole pipeline into 4 parallel sub pipelines each working on its own time-frame....what do you think?

also thanks for the link about EXCEL 2010 performance - very helpful!
Edited by dima777 - 11/26/12 at 10:06am
post #28 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Because those require certifications.
E7 are designed for mission-critical systems though.

I know, I was just being difficult. I've seen the list of things an E7 can recover from, and it's quite impressive.
 
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post #29 of 100
Thread Starter 
yeah))) I WISH I COULD HAVE ONE)
post #30 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by dima777 View Post

thank you for your reply...I need 4 VMs to each analyse its own time frame of the 50 currency pairs....the analysis will be performed identically for each time frame of the 50 currency pairs....so to analyse it all in parallel I am thinking of breaking the whole pipeline into 4 parallel sub pipelines each working on its own time-frame....what do you think?
also thanks for the link about EXCEL 2010 performance - very helpful!

why do you need VMs though? You can run multiple instances of your programs within a single OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima777 View Post

yeah))) I WISH I COULD HAVE ONE)
You need the software to support most of the features.


Besides.... your software is much much more likely to be the cause of failures rather than hardware. What type of source control will you be doing? If you don't have strong source control, hardware stablity issues is moot.
Edited by DuckieHo - 11/26/12 at 1:03pm
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