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[OFFICIAL] GTX 660 (NON TI) Owners Club. - Page 9

post #81 of 6751
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhatfie View Post

Received my Zotac GTX660 today that was on sale at NewEgg recently for $169. Man this thing is tiny compared to the Galaxy GTX660. What a neat little card though, the build quality appears to be very nice, the cooler even though it is small appears to be pretty efficient and is pretty quiet, even at max fan speed. When running some initial overclocking tests and Heaven, temps were in the 62-64C range. I have only done a few overclocking runs with it so I cannot deem anything stable, but thus far I have been able to put +150 core (1143mhz I believe) and +425 memory. +450 memory had my fps go down .1 so it appears that memory was potentially overextended at that speed even though there were no artifacts to be seen. I tried +170 core, but Heaven crashed at the very end of the test. +100mv appears to do nothing in Afterburner.
Not able to score nearly as good a result as YungBenny in Heaven @ the 1080p setting that were used, only getting 35.8fps, which is at least better than my Galaxy's best result by almost 3fps in the same computer.

unlock that bios and get that voltage up to 1.212. biggrin.gif yes, the volt control in ab does nothing. I don't think afterburner and kepler like each other that much without an unlocked/modded bios and even still, I am not a fan. if you want constant volts or adjustment, evga precision x has volt tool and will control the voltage and allow for a constant (non-ramping) voltage if you want, but it will only go to about 1.175 without the unlocked/modded bios where as ab had cut me off at 1.162 or something. regardless, when the kepler boost is in play, your volts will ramp to max anyway unless you get throttling down from heat.

my overclock at full kepler boost (not my boost clock, but my max frequency) (1254MHz) automatically goes to the highest possible voltage VID policy in the bios being 1.212. I think that's pretty much the same for everyone who has unlocked the bios with the volt mod. I might be wrong about those numbers above due to memory, but I just remember with stock bios precision x let it go a slight bit higher so I could overclock the stock bios a bit more.

precision x is the way to go...but still...unlock that bios too tongue.gif
    
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post #82 of 6751
You don't need that voltage. 1.100 V should be enough for majority of cards.

I was able to get 875 MHz on 0.9V, and about 960 MHz on 0.95V. 0.988V allows the card to work at designed speeds. Now NORMAL GTX 660 and GTX 650 Ti are working at 1.08V, which is a lot more they need for stable clocks. Going to 1.175V actually nips the card into balls because it causes slowdowns hiccups and possible microstutering, or better to say lower minimum framerate. (You'd need to remove both power targets an ensure both your MB and PSU are able to work, even in situation when you violate standards, heavily.)

When you look at techpowerup, or other sites, you'd see all Kepler brands are basically reaching some set frequency. When cards are clustering around certain frequency, the cards are limited mainly by an inherent 28 nm technology limitation, than by anything else.
post #83 of 6751
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

You don't need that voltage. 1.100 V should be enough for majority of cards.
I was able to get 875 MHz on 0.9V, and about 960 MHz on 0.95V. 0.988V allows the card to work at designed speeds. Now NORMAL GTX 660 and GTX 650 Ti are working at 1.08V, which is a lot more they need for stable clocks. Going to 1.175V actually nips the card into balls because it causes slowdowns hiccups and possible microstutering, or better to say lower minimum framerate. (You'd need to remove both power targets an ensure both your MB and PSU are able to work, even in situation when you violate standards, heavily.)
When you look at techpowerup, or other sites, you'd see all Kepler brands are basically reaching some set frequency. When cards are clustering around certain frequency, the cards are limited mainly by an inherent 28 nm technology limitation, than by anything else.

haha, wait.... what exactly are you talking about? Because that is the most confusing post i have seen lol.. You know Kepler cards have preset voltages in their bios right?, and the max is 1.2123mv... The card's stock 3D voltages are all 1.175mv ( GTX 670,680,660ti,660 "non ti") from all the manufacturers i have seen, so your 1.100 will be actually under-volting the cards... Maybe you mean something i don't get, but i think you should read that post again... Because i don't think you understand how Kepler cards work.. They are not like Fermi at all... 0.988v is almost the same, if not the same value with Kepler 2D clocks voltage tongue.gif
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post #84 of 6751
I talked about this: http://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Twin_Frozr_III/images/clock_vs_voltage.jpg
As you can see, its voltage is 1.1V when it runs at 1100 MHz. The trouble is the voltage can spike up for bad reasons when boost is active. The card doesn't need the voltage either. I just ran Furmark, and it ran at 1.062 V without problems.

Yes it's not Fermi. The difference from Fermi is it has an additional power state, P2 Kepler state is fully equivalent to P0 Fermi state. (Thus my 2D clocks, actually P5 mode, has 0.900V, P2 mode has 0.950V.) Have you looked at nvidia inspector on how many volts it uses during Furmark?
post #85 of 6751
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

I talked about this: http://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Twin_Frozr_III/images/clock_vs_voltage.jpg
As you can see, its voltage is 1.1V when it runs at 1100 MHz. The trouble is the voltage can spike up for bad reasons when boost is active. The card doesn't need the voltage either. I just ran Furmark, and it ran at 1.062 V without problems.
Yes it's not Fermi. The difference from Fermi is it has an additional power state, P2 Kepler state is fully equivalent to P0 Fermi state. (Thus my 2D clocks, actually P5 mode, has 0.900V, P2 mode has 0.950V.) Have you looked at nvidia inspector on how many volts it uses during Furmark?

Because the card runs at lower voltages when furmark is running does not necessarily mean 1.212mv is TOO MUCH for the card. Furmark is a very stressful software, and i know cards throttle a lot while running furmark. So the lower voltages you see while running furmark is the card protecting itself form overheating. For the card to run at it's max boost clock "MHZ", it needs it's max 1.175mv voltage to do that, but if it does that, it risks overheating itself, so it uses lower voltages and lower clocks to run at those speeds, "that's why i said i don't think you understand how kepler cards work, they are similar to a cpu with ofset voltages". Unlike you, i run at 1.319Mhz max boost clock @ 1.212mv just fine... It does not affect the card because the cards were already made to run at those voltages...
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post #86 of 6751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yungbenny911 View Post

For the card to run at it's max boost clock "MHZ", it needs it's max 1.175mv voltage to do that, but if it does that, it risks overheating itself, so it uses lower voltages and lower clocks to run at those speeds
If it uses lower clocks then how could it run at these speeds?

As a general rule, if a card doesn't need the voltage, because it runs flawlessly at lower voltage, it shouldn't use high voltage. Look at that Furmark example. When the card can run Furmark flawlessly at low voltage why should it use high voltage for anything? The only reason why overclockers often needs higher voltage than stock is they are increasing frequency, thus the card/CPU could have too few electrons to be able to reliably operate. However when you look at the graph above 1.1 V was enough for 1100 MHz. A stock Kepler has no reason whatever to run at peak voltage when it's not overclocked to 1280+ MHz.

Now NVidia didn't show a paper with data about degradation of substrate/transistors because of high voltage, and its dependency on temperature. We just know that NVidia screamed murder when manufacturers went above 1.175V and went to extreme measures to prevent it. And we also know NVidia is dropping speed/voltage at 73 degrees. I calculated expected voltages for Kepler. (I had data for 45 and 65 nm, and did a proper analysis.) Of course these voltages also depend on substrate variations, but considering the only person who would test stability of substrate is TMC, I doubt you can get better numbers from everywhere.

The voltages are.
Long term stable: 1.084607206 V
Max voltage for overclocking: 1.17137578248 V.

As you can see these numbers are quite a bit smaller than 1.212 V. (that max voltage for overclocking should be used in situation when user wants to run card overclocked for 10 hours a day doing heavily gaming on it. 5 days a week of course. A voltage that can burn the card in 15 seconds is probably above 1.3xx. Higher with liquid nitrogen, lower in summer.)




Actually this brings the question. I seen in reviews that GTX 660/GTX 650 Ti were hitting rather flat barrier at around 1240 MHz, or so. Was it because of power target setting in BIOS, or was it inherent Kepler limitation?
post #87 of 6751
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

Actually this brings the question. I seen in reviews that GTX 660/GTX 650 Ti were hitting rather flat barrier at around 1240 MHz, or so. Was it because of power target setting in BIOS, or was it inherent Kepler limitation?

I also thought the same thing and came to the conclusion that it should be the power target/voltage. My cards could do 1263MHz max boost clock at 1.175mv, but as soon as i upped the TDP to 150% and voltage to 1.212v, it boosted up to 1319Mhz. I don't think it has anything to do with the Kepler architecture. It was also similar with the 660ti and 670... they mostly hit that wall of 1250+ Max boost clock at 1.175mv. I believe if the cards could take more higher voltage, lots of people could hit up to 1400mhz stable, but going over 1.212mv is asking for trouble biggrin.gif
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post #88 of 6751
Just got a pair of factory OC MSI cards. Most I can get stock voltage is 1176 at full boost. Meh. Not impressed with these. May mess with BIOS modding later. Is 1.212v the max achievable through BIOS modding?
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post #89 of 6751
hmm I found out that i had in bios only 8 as multiplier, so I was running my q9550 on 2.66GHz. I started FC3 and intro scene in camp was kinda running 19-22fps. dont know why. tough later it got better i get now 40-45fps, msaa off. but i guess somehow fxaa runs in background cause i dont see any edges anywhere. also no difference in fps between high and ultra. i mean its playable no problem with that.

I uploaded some photos of my rig http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/4527647

i changed the cpu cooler to coolermaster cortex plus, installed revoltec airguard 120mm side and bigger rear 92mm fan and temps came from 75+ to 55, but i guess in far cry 3 i am seeing gpu bottleneck as i planned 660 ftw sig 2 3gb for c2d e7500 and then got myself q9550 smile.gif
to use evga step up program i could either get 660ti ftw 3gb (46eur+shipping) or 670 ftw 4gb (241eur+shipping) and for 6+ or 18+fps i dont think the hassle with the shipping makes sense. i have the money, i am just too lazy, and also have no other card to put into my system for now, as i sold the old one already. well i could take my radeon 9700pro, wait cant thats agp ...

i guess i just pray my card goes kaboom and then i get myself some 760ti/770 3/4gb smile.gif seems like q9550@stock really isnt bottleneck even these days and the 133eur price was great investment, well 165 if i count in the new cooler as i got only q8200 stock intel cooler from seller and that was terrible

i know i should shut up and play xD

EDIT: thinking to switch to dell u2711 2560x1440 from my 1080, will see if i can sell my current lcd. does someone here platy single 660 on 2560?

thank you
revro
Edited by revro - 12/23/12 at 2:59am
post #90 of 6751
From reading this thread I found via google, I was sold to go for the 660.
Got the MSI GTX 660 about a week ago, so very impressed with it - pretty much the same overclock on stock voltage as OP (1250 core 6804 memory).
For £160 ($258) compared to the £300~ ($484) GTX 670 - it's mindblowing how much you get out of it!

A question though, will flashing the BIOS void the warranty? i've read MSI's warranty supports overclocking but unsure that if I flash it, they'll tell me to bugger off should something go wrong with my card tongue.gif

Also, does increasing the voltage affect the memory modules in any way? I noticed they are without heatsinks and wouldn't want to risk toasting them!

To the post above:
Quote:
EDIT: thinking to switch to dell u2711 2560x1440 from my 1080, will see if i can sell my current lcd. does someone here platy single 660 on 2560?

I wouldn't advise a 2560x1600 monitor if you're using the GTX 660, they can still play on them but from benchmarks it looks like they suffer if you crank up any game detail that uses VRAM (AA, SSAO etc).
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1TB Samsung SATA II Windows 7 64-bit LG 19" LCD Logitech G15 
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Coolermaster GX 650W flimsy tatty iCute Logitech G5 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › NVIDIA › [OFFICIAL] GTX 660 (NON TI) Owners Club.