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Steamroller delayed, Kaveri Canceled - Page 2

post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

No they do not. AMD is getting smashed in the desktop enthusiast market. Im not saying performance wise. Performance wise the 8350 goes toe to toe with intels 3570k which is in the same price bracket, it even beats the 3570k in a good amount of benchmarks. However, the truth is they are just not selling like they should be. I for one think the architecture is just not being fully utilized with software. AMD should still scrap the module/core design and go back to a phenom 2 type of core and just die shrink it and optimize the crap out of it.
I love my 6300 it tears up every thing I do, and more new games are starting to utilize 6+ cores ie BF3, Black ops 2, crysis 3 ect. I just think AMD could do so much better. Unfortunately they don't have enough money to throw at R&D like Intel does. Will they go out of business? Doubt it, or lets hope not cause when a company has a monopoly on the market it never works good for the consumer.

He's right, the other day i went down o my local comp store and heard another guy wanting to buy a gpu, hes like shud i get 660gtx or 670 and askig the other sales rep which ones better, and i was like he Shud get an amd 7870 they'll destroy nvidia price performance in which the sales rrp serving me tells me yes its a better choice but i duno why, not much ppl buy amd.
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post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

No they do not. AMD is getting smashed in the desktop enthusiast market. Im not saying performance wise. Performance wise the 8350 goes toe to toe with intels 3570k which is in the same price bracket, it even beats the 3570k in a good amount of benchmarks. However, the truth is they are just not selling like they should be. I for one think the architecture is just not being fully utilized with software. AMD should still scrap the module/core design and go back to a phenom 2 type of core and just die shrink it and optimize the crap out of it.
I love my 6300 it tears up every thing I do, and more new games are starting to utilize 6+ cores ie BF3, Black ops 2, crysis 3 ect. I just think AMD could do so much better. Unfortunately they don't have enough money to throw at R&D like Intel does. Will they go out of business? Doubt it, or lets hope not cause when a company has a monopoly on the market it never works good for the consumer.

AMD WILL NOT and CAN NOT scrap the current design. 5+ years of R&D went into bulldozer.

Phenom II was already maxed as far as optimization went....remember that it had its roots all the way back to K8. They needed to build something from the ground up with less bloat and old architecture involved. A die shrink does not always mean better....If that was the case they would have done that. The bulldozer arch brought massive memory bandwidth/memory speed improvements, they just need to work out all the kinks with IPC and resource sharing and bring power down. This is all happening at a slower pace as a result of a small R&D budget.

The enthusiast desktop market makes up such a small percentage of AMD's sales right now. Their focus should be more on the mainstream market (APUs, low-power mobile chips) and the server market if they want to turn the current rough patch around.

And I highly doubt AMD is going anywhere soon. Their X86 license from intel is non-transferrable so they cannot be bought out anytime soon. They will either look for investment or turn it around the tough way which is what they have been doing (trimming the fat and lowering operating costs). I highly doubt the government would let them go down either as that would leave intel with a monopoly on the market. There would be some sort of cash infusion.

Their venture into ARM cpus for the server market could have a profound impact if done correctly. Only time will tell.
Edited by Slappa - 11/26/12 at 9:18pm
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post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

No they do not. AMD is getting smashed in the desktop enthusiast market. Im not saying performance wise. Performance wise the 8350 goes toe to toe with intels 3570k which is in the same price bracket, it even beats the 3570k in a good amount of benchmarks. However, the truth is they are just not selling like they should be. I for one think the architecture is just not being fully utilized with software. AMD should still scrap the module/core design and go back to a phenom 2 type of core and just die shrink it and optimize the crap out of it.
I love my 6300 it tears up every thing I do, and more new games are starting to utilize 6+ cores ie BF3, Black ops 2, crysis 3 ect. I just think AMD could do so much better. Unfortunately they don't have enough money to throw at R&D like Intel does. Will they go out of business? Doubt it, or lets hope not cause when a company has a monopoly on the market it never works good for the consumer.

Yeah, Piledriver was a big step in the right direction but theyre still a good bit behind Intel and in some areas by a large margin. If you look at the reviews like Anand's it looks like the 8350 is fairly close to the 3570 in a lot of things but theyre compared at stock clocks and that gives the 8350 a 600 MHz advantage. When you compare them at equal clocks, the i5 really starts to pull away. And when you consider most any Ivy and especially Sandy i5 can hit in the upper 4's with relative ease but we're seeing more and more people have problems getting their 8300's to go passed the mid 4's, thats a problem.

I also agree that the Bulldozer architecture isnt being utilized fully by software but I dont see this changing. You gotta go back to when BD first hit the drawing boards. Everybody was rolling dual cores and quad cores were all the rage. It was logical to think that 6 cores would be better and 8 would be better still. Unfortunately Intel went the other way of screaming IPC and turns out thats the way the CPU world went.

I dont know near enough about engineering or how CPU's are designed and built so I dont know what the answer is. Ive been a loooooongtime AMD fanboy but I have to admit it does look bleak now. It appears now that there wont be a new AMD chip til late 2014 and by that time Haswell will have been out over a year with Broadwell looming. That means at least 1 generation of Intel chips will have been released without and answer from AMD and thats HUGE considering AMD is essentially a generation behind right now. Im just not sure if thats something they can overcome and thats probably the reason for the persistent rumors that AMD is bowing out of the the desktop CPU market altogether except for their APU's which are selling like hotcakes. I personally dont believe that and think theyre just delaying Steamroller to work on it more and make it better and more competitive. Im not giving up on the desktop/enthusiast market just yet.
post #14 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

No they do not. AMD is getting smashed in the desktop enthusiast market. Im not saying performance wise. Performance wise the 8350 goes toe to toe with intels 3570k which is in the same price bracket, it even beats the 3570k in a good amount of benchmarks. However, the truth is they are just not selling like they should be. I for one think the architecture is just not being fully utilized with software. AMD should still scrap the module/core design and go back to a phenom 2 type of core and just die shrink it and optimize the crap out of it.
I love my 6300 it tears up every thing I do, and more new games are starting to utilize 6+ cores ie BF3, Black ops 2, crysis 3 ect. I just think AMD could do so much better. Unfortunately they don't have enough money to throw at R&D like Intel does. Will they go out of business? Doubt it, or lets hope not cause when a company has a monopoly on the market it never works good for the consumer.

There is price vrs performance, and thats it. AMD competes just fine where their product is tiered right now.

the 8350 is also selling just fine, I know for a fact my local microcenter, typically has very low inventory of these cpu's, and why does the amount of sale effect your decision or perception of the cpu.
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Yeah, Piledriver was a big step in the right direction but theyre still a good bit behind Intel and in some areas by a large margin. If you look at the reviews like Anand's it looks like the 8350 is fairly close to the 3570 in a lot of things but theyre compared at stock clocks and that gives the 8350 a 600 MHz advantage. When you compare them at equal clocks, the i5 really starts to pull away. And when you consider most any Ivy and especially Sandy i5 can hit in the upper 4's with relative ease but we're seeing more and more people have problems getting their 8300's to go passed the mid 4's, thats a problem.

a problem for whom exactly ? 1% of the entire PC market ?
Quote:
I also agree that the Bulldozer architecture isnt being utilized fully by software but I dont see this changing. You gotta go back to when BD first hit the drawing boards. Everybody was rolling dual cores and quad cores were all the rage. It was logical to think that 6 cores would be better and 8 would be better still. Unfortunately Intel went the other way of screaming IPC and turns out thats the way the CPU world went.

IPC went up with some instructions, FPU performance went up, Memory performance went up, AMD and its new gen of cpu's, went up, even improved power consumption.
Quote:
I dont know near enough about engineering or how CPU's are designed and built so I dont know what the answer is. Ive been a loooooongtime AMD fanboy but I have to admit it does look bleak now. It appears now that there wont be a new AMD chip til late 2014 and by that time Haswell will have been out over a year with Broadwell looming. That means at least 1 generation of Intel chips will have been released without and answer from AMD and thats HUGE considering AMD is essentially a generation behind right now. Im just not sure if thats something they can overcome and thats probably the reason for the persistent rumors that AMD is bowing out of the the desktop CPU market altogether except for their APU's which are selling like hotcakes. I personally dont believe that and think theyre just delaying Steamroller to work on it more and make it better and more competitive. Im not giving up on the desktop/enthusiast market just yet.

Why do you care about where AMD is competing in the market ? this isn't baseball, its a cpu, you buy it to crunch numbers, you buy a certain amount of gflop per $, you buy what you can afford. All this drivel and carrying on by the folks around here about intel and amd being a generation apart. Why does this matter, buy the product you need at the price you need it, and move on.
post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Troll much ? AMD competes just fine in the price segments they have their products placed in. the bulldozer design is here to stay, get over your self righteous butthurt.

self righteous butthurt? i dont think you even know what self righteous means.

AMD's 8 core cant match Intel's 4 core at the same price point.


edit: from reading your other posts you seem like a very deluded individual with no logical reasoning ability.
 
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post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

a problem for whom exactly ? 1% of the entire PC market ?

Actually we're more around 5% of the PC market.
Quote:
IPC went up with some instructions, FPU performance went up, Memory performance went up, AMD and its new gen of cpu's, went up, even improved power consumption.

Yeah but Intel improved all those areas as well and by a lot more.
Quote:
Why do you care about where AMD is competing in the market ? this isn't baseball, its a cpu, you buy it to crunch numbers, you buy a certain amount of gflop per $, you buy what you can afford. All this drivel and carrying on by the folks around here about intel and amd being a generation apart. Why does this matter, buy the product you need at the price you need it, and move on.

Because I want a competitive CPU market. I dont want Intel to be the only game in town. Why do you have to buy the most expensive i5 or i7 to overclock? Because there AMD isnt pushing Intel like they were before. When Phenom II was nipping at Intel's heels, you could overclock any of their processors right down to the $60 Pentium dual cores. Now that Intel is a generation ahead, you have to shell out $220 minimum to overclock. Its not about Team Intel or Team AMD, its about us being enthusiasts and this being our favorite hobby and having a tight, competitive CPU market means more innovation, better products and best of all, cheaper prices! Having Intel run away with the CPU market or even worse, AMD ceding the desktop CPU market to Intel would be disastrous for guys like us and this hobby.
post #18 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Actually we're more around 5% of the PC market.
Yeah but Intel improved all those areas as well and by a lot more.
Because I want a competitive CPU market. I dont want Intel to be the only game in town. Why do you have to buy the most expensive i5 or i7 to overclock? Because there AMD isnt pushing Intel like they were before. When Phenom II was nipping at Intel's heels, you could overclock any of their processors right down to the $60 Pentium dual cores. Now that Intel is a generation ahead, you have to shell out $220 minimum to overclock. Its not about Team Intel or Team AMD, its about us being enthusiasts and this being our favorite hobby and having a tight, competitive CPU market means more innovation, better products and best of all, cheaper prices! Having Intel run away with the CPU market or even worse, AMD ceding the desktop CPU market to Intel would be disastrous for guys like us and this hobby.

People want allot of things, Mostly I want people to stop trolling and shilling for Intel, so do you think you could oblige.
post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

People want allot of things, Mostly I want people to stop trolling and shilling for Intel, so do you think you could oblige.

When a FX-8150 cant blow away a Core 2 Quad, theres a problem. but you know..since youre the AMD guy i guess you could defend that fact. so go ahead.
 
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post #20 of 37
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Originally Posted by srsparky32 View Post

When a FX-8150 cant blow away a Core 2 Quad, theres a problem. but you know..since youre the AMD guy i guess you could defend that fact. so go ahead.

Blown away at what ? Super Pi ? No body denys the trades off associated with the first bulldozer iteration in regards to single threaded workloads, but to be honest, who gives a crap. any software worth its salt, is well optimized for multi core cpu's these days. If its not, the consumer is being cheated. But a Core 2 Quad does not "blow away " a 8150, in all but a few Intel compiler biased benchmarks and old x87 depndant bencmarks. Your welcome to come trying this line of dialog, but it's not worth the effort, each CPU has its optimal workload, if you don't have a use case for a 8 core AMD fx cpu, don't buy one.
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